On a lighter note (rather a side-note), is it true that Copyright laws are restricted to 100 years only? I read (or did I hear) that somewhere ..maybe I am wrong If not...In which case, 100 years from now probably we can post BGM's here.
-A On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:30 PM, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks, Amith. Hearing from horse's mouth is indeed enlightening and > leaves no sphere for doubt or confusion. > > So, that clarifies that sharing of ripped BGMs is illegal. > > But is it so unethical? > > You wrote: > > The BGMs are the part of a movie, and are intended to be > > > heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not otherwise. > > That is too stringent and unethical. Why do we have to see a 2:30 hours > movie to enjoy a total of 5-10 minute BGMs? Can anyone afford to spend > time seeing the entire movie to enjoy BGMs? And even DVDs don't have any > menu for BGMs and we would have to locate them ourselves put our own > bookmarks to reach them, so on. Hardly anyone has the skill and > inclination to do that. > > That brings us to a concept: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire > > > laissez-faire can refer to "hands off, let alone, or let pass or let it > be " attitude for matters outside of economics. > > > > Laissez-faire (pronunciation: French, [lɛsefɛʁ] (help·info); English, > ˌleɪseɪˈfɛər (help·info)) is a French phrase literally meaning Let do > ("allow to do" > > Laissez-faire is loosely translated as "Let individual be left alone". > Government agencies are not supposed to interfere whatever an individual > is doing in the privacy of home. > > That concept is well prevalent and I have come across police, lawyers > and other person, who have conceded that that concept is what all > agencies seem to follow nowadays, though the motivation for them is not > any philosophical belief but just the plain, vanilla "shortage of > manpower and time" to follow up everything. > > So, even working police guys have told me that if an individual is > ripping cds/ dvds/ videos/ music/ whatever, even copying them in full > and keeping for himself to view, NO CASE IS PUT AGAINST HIM, as long as > he is not selling them, as long as he is not telling that it is his own > creation. > > So, though it is illegal, by the words of law, to rip and share these > things, when we are not charging money and when we are not claiming them > to be our own creation, no police or no court in India is going to put > behind bars, of course, unless they are hellbent on trapping us on any > excuse. > > For that matter, did you ever got a novel to read for hire? Did you ever > buy a novel and sold it after reading? Well, I think that is all > illegal. (Hope someone clarifies). But that happens because that is > surely unethical and impractical as everyone can't buy novels at huge > prices and there is no point in keeping a novel for life after reading. > Of course, if the copy you got is pirated itself (somebody else typing/ > scanning it and reprinting it), that is rightly offense. > > The same line of thought can be followed about music also. > > One thing is sure. > > PUBLIC SHARING OF SUCH THINGS WOULD STILL BE CONSIDERED A GRAVE LEGAL > OFFENSE. > > So, having thought about it, I now concede that this list should not > share such things so openly and so publicly. > > The solution: Share them in private. > > Members can request for bgms, cds, dvds, videos, mp3s here in list. > There is no offense in asking. > > And then, the learned members having skills to extract bgms can send > those bgms and whatever to them by direct post, bypassing this list. > > The first and foremost things is "buy at least one copy of audio cd" > > Once you have that, even right holder companies would be obliged to you > and they know that they can't make you buy 100 versions of the same thing. > > Thanks. > -- > Rawat > > > On 10/31/2008 7:24 AM India Time, _Amith Chandhran_ wrote: > > > In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on any > > recordable media are very well defined in the legal system. > > > > Copyright recognizes the exclusive right of a creator to gain the > > commercial advantage out of his own creation. It is essential to > > encourage the artists and composers to invest their creative inputs in > > the original works.* > > > > *Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary, > > Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound > > recordings. A musical work means any combination of (instrumental or > > vocal) melody, harmony, singing, or either of them, printed, reduced to > > writing or otherwise graphically produced or reproduced. > > > > Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic film, > > the assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by > > default own copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier > > email on the copyright issues here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message/88353 > > > > The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a movie, > > and are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not > > otherwise. Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form > > (voiceless, with voice / with or without musical instruments) the > > copyrights will still remain with the original assignee. Since copyright > > is a bundle of rights, the assignee who has the copyrights for the > > movie, will essentially own the copyrights in the BGMs as well. > > (/Remember: "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"/) And > > extracting BGMs will violate the copyright laws. > > > > * * > > Where both a CD and a DVD are copyrighted, the copyright laws will be > > applicable to all the work that they contain. > > > > And unfortunately, the contention > > 'we-are-innocent-because-we-are-die-hard-fans-of-Mr.Rahman' is not going > > to sustain in any courts in this world. And I am not being sarcastic > > here, its the fact. > > > > Thanks, > > > > - > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM, kaissiom <[EMAIL > > PROTECTED]<kaissiom%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <kaissiom%40yahoo.com>>> wrote: > > > > Dear Aravind, > > > > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or > > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and > > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :( > > > > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. > > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman. > > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally > > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the > > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to > > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted, > > dedicated Rahman fan. > > > > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio. > > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I > > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when > > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right > > after RDB bgms. > > > > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing... > > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD > > > > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but > > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on > > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned > > musical bits from DVD: > > > > a)BGM (Background Music) bits: > > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like > > some of the tracks in BOSE. > > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know? > > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know? > > > > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD): > > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are > > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is > > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here > > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't > > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the > > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a > > commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of > > copyright laws. > > 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD > > 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES. > > > > Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between > > just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially > > available in form of CD). > > > > The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be > > very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like... > > "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still > > argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in > > commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these > > producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available... > > that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and > > sharing these BGMS. It could be a market they are overlooking and > > while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the > > die-hard fans and that too for "free". The "free" part is a big deal > > because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it > > boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose? > > > > On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well defined. > > Either the Record Company owns it(most of the times) or the producer > > owns it or the composer owns it or they own it partially( Rahman is > > working on it). > > I believe full length vocals of any song should not be shared..for the > > very same reason we do not share full length audio songs from Rahman's > > CDs. > > > > Rahman is an excellent corporate citizen and he is our role model. We > > should learn from him and follow him in his ideals as true fans. We > > as a group and as true Rahman fans are against piracy and plagiarism. > > Not just Rahman's... please buy original CDs and DVDs of all the > > Artists you like! > > > > Make Rahman Proud, > > Wasim. > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] <arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com<arrahmanfans%2540yahoogroups.com>>, > Aravind AM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have extracted voice only tracks of songs in Taal and Dil-Se... > > But, now I'm having second thoughts on uploading it to the group. > > > > > > After seeing this series of mails on whether or not sharing this > > mail, I'm now thoroughly confused. On reading kaissiom's mail, I > > > > could truly empathise with his argument. Whatever he has mentioned in > > his mail makes a lot of sense, and he is totally justified! > > > > > > Now, I'm torn between the two - joy of sharing and > > > > ethics/copyright issues. > > > > > > Gopal and Vijay, It would be great if you could give your views on > > the same!! > > > > > > > > > Aravind > > > -- -A http://viewsnmuse.blogspot.com
