On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:
On Tuesday 24 January 2006 07:04, Bill Unruh wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Lee Revell wrote:
On Tue, 2006-01-24 at 03:03 +0100, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:
btw, where are suddenly all this 'we need a fix binary abi' people are
coming
from?
Until ca 2 month ago they never spoke up, and suddenly in every forum
or mailing lists are popping up people, most of them posting for the
first time, demanding a fix ABI.
It seems to have coincided with the "Linux in a binary world (a doomsday
scenario)" thread on LKML around the same time, when some kernel
developers made it clear that the days of them tolerating proprietary
drivers are numbered. Many people seem to be afraid they will lose
support for their favorite binary-driver hardware, and are trying to put
pressure on the kernel community, rather than on the vendors where it
belongs.
This being a religious statement? Most users want a system that works. They
really do not care that much exactly why and how. And when people come out
and declare that they do not care about the users, but that their
principles come first, people not unnaturally get upset. At both, but
unfortunately or otherwise, the developers are more public.
no, the problem is, that a lot of people demand stupid things instead of
thinking about the arguments made by the devs.
binary drivers only hurt the development of linux in the long run. Nobody can
debug a kernel with binary drivers. And there is a simple solution: get your
drivers into the kernel, or make them completly userspace.
Most users are ok with that, but some (and I suspect that most of them have a
windows system full of pirated software) are crying, that the devs don't
care.
Which is a blatant lie.
What are they going to do? Do a SCO and sue everyone around? Rewrite the
kernel so that proprietary drivers do not work (boy that will make them
popular)? Maybe force everyone to send any drivers to Linus for his
personal imprimature before they run?
there is no need to rewrite the kernel to make binary drivers unusable. The
normal course of development means that binary drivers need ongoing maintance
or don't work at all.
The statement was "some kernel
developers made it clear that the days of them tolerating proprietary
drivers are numbered."
"Not tolerate" is much stronger than "normal course of development" I was
asking what form their "not tolerate" was going to take.
Look at all the patches nvidia posts in their forums.
"not tolerate" means that somehow they will stop nvidia from posting
patches.
Or think about the fact, that via released some unichrome drivers some weeks
ago - for some redhat kernels only.
"not tolerate" seems to mean that via cannot release any drivers. None. For
anyone's kernel.
That is extrem user-unfriendly. I was so angry, I could have bite into my
table - and I don't even use via.
Because it is so wrong and harms every unichrome and not-redhat user.
"not tolerate" is extemely user-unfriendly.
Oh, and because you mentioned SCO:
scho had three years and have not shown anything, but set some interesstin
precedence.
Yes, I asked that question on purpose.
If some dev suspects a company to incorporate GPL'ed code, he is not only able
to sue (because of violation of copyright law) but demand wide access to the
versin controll system.
?? And how many such suits have there been?
You are maybe going to take on Microsoft and see if their tcp stack
contains any of your GPL code ( you after all cannot sue for anyone else).
What is "versin controll system"
And that is not funny.
btw, there have been a lot of violations. Corporations 'stealing' GPL'ed code.
They got sued - they lost.
Who got sued? What court case?
Think about that. If you are making a binary only driver which incorporates or
links into GPL'ed code you are on extremly thin ice.
links into? means what? And which company was sued and lost for "liniking
into GPL code".
In that case I hope for you, that you have enough money for the lawyers (and
your opponents lawyers if you get sued in Germany and loose).
Me? You mean Microsoft? You mean Nvidia? Yes, they have enough money.
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