On Tuesday 24 January 2006 07:37, Bill Unruh wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: > > On Tuesday 24 January 2006 07:04, Bill Unruh wrote: > >> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Lee Revell wrote: > >>> On Tue, 2006-01-24 at 03:03 +0100, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: > >>>> btw, where are suddenly all this 'we need a fix binary abi' people are > >>>> coming > >>>> from? > >>>> > >>>> Until ca 2 month ago they never spoke up, and suddenly in every forum > >>>> or mailing lists are popping up people, most of them posting for the > >>>> first time, demanding a fix ABI. > >>> > >>> It seems to have coincided with the "Linux in a binary world (a > >>> doomsday scenario)" thread on LKML around the same time, when some > >>> kernel developers made it clear that the days of them tolerating > >>> proprietary drivers are numbered. Many people seem to be afraid they > >>> will lose support for their favorite binary-driver hardware, and are > >>> trying to put pressure on the kernel community, rather than on the > >>> vendors where it belongs. > >> > >> This being a religious statement? Most users want a system that works. > >> They really do not care that much exactly why and how. And when people > >> come out and declare that they do not care about the users, but that > >> their principles come first, people not unnaturally get upset. At both, > >> but unfortunately or otherwise, the developers are more public. > > > > no, the problem is, that a lot of people demand stupid things instead of > > thinking about the arguments made by the devs. > > binary drivers only hurt the development of linux in the long run. Nobody > > can debug a kernel with binary drivers. And there is a simple solution: > > get your drivers into the kernel, or make them completly userspace. > > > > Most users are ok with that, but some (and I suspect that most of them > > have a windows system full of pirated software) are crying, that the devs > > don't care. > > Which is a blatant lie. > > > >> What are they going to do? Do a SCO and sue everyone around? Rewrite the > >> kernel so that proprietary drivers do not work (boy that will make them > >> popular)? Maybe force everyone to send any drivers to Linus for his > >> personal imprimature before they run? > > > > there is no need to rewrite the kernel to make binary drivers unusable. > > The normal course of development means that binary drivers need ongoing > > maintance or don't work at all. > > The statement was "some kernel > developers made it clear that the days of them tolerating proprietary > drivers are numbered." > > "Not tolerate" is much stronger than "normal course of development" I was > asking what form their "not tolerate" was going to take. > > > Look at all the patches nvidia posts in their forums. > > "not tolerate" means that somehow they will stop nvidia from posting > patches. > > > Or think about the fact, that via released some unichrome drivers some > > weeks ago - for some redhat kernels only. > > "not tolerate" seems to mean that via cannot release any drivers. None. > For anyone's kernel.
which would be less damaging than releasing them for two certain kernel versions, forcing everybody to use a certain distro with a certain kernel with certain, known security problems.... > > That is extrem user-unfriendly. I was so angry, I could have bite into my > > table - and I don't even use via. > > Because it is so wrong and harms every unichrome and not-redhat user. > > "not tolerate" is extemely user-unfriendly. 'some devs' (and not Linus T.) what do you not understand? And nvidia&co got only a shot in front of their feet, to wake them up. No harm has been done so far. So what are you whining about? > > > Oh, and because you mentioned SCO: > > scho had three years and have not shown anything, but set some > > interesstin precedence. > > Yes, I asked that question on purpose. > > > If some dev suspects a company to incorporate GPL'ed code, he is not only > > able to sue (because of violation of copyright law) but demand wide > > access to the versin controll system. > > ?? And how many such suits have there been? > You are maybe going to take on Microsoft and see if their tcp stack > contains any of your GPL code ( you after all cannot sue for anyone else). > What is "versin controll system" oh, and now we are at the 'if you don't have arguments, attack typing mistakes' level. version control system. You should know, what a version controll system is. > > > And that is not funny. > > > > btw, there have been a lot of violations. Corporations 'stealing' GPL'ed > > code. They got sued - they lost. > > Who got sued? What court case? Do you really expect me to search something for you, that you can easily find using google? Or heise.de? Believe me, there were several cases, and the offenders lost. gpl-violations.org will be a good first station on your research. > > > Think about that. If you are making a binary only driver which > > incorporates or links into GPL'ed code you are on extremly thin ice. > > links into? means what? And which company was sued and lost for "liniking > into GPL code". links into means links into. Now you are playing dumb? > > > In that case I hope for you, that you have enough money for the lawyers > > (and your opponents lawyers if you get sued in Germany and loose). > > Me? You mean Microsoft? You mean Nvidia? Yes, they have enough money. Oh, I meant everybody incorporating GPL code in non-GPL projects. And an expensive, lost case is just that: expensive. Plus the PR desaster. But we know, your are in the 'critize spelling and playing dumb' mode now... Please go away and troll somewhere else. ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
