On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 1:34 PM juan via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> 4st nomic via agora-discussion [2023-06-20 11:42]: > > Hm... ok, basic explanation of what I want... > > I want some sort of way where there is a switch (Unfathomability in this > > example) that acts like changes to it are retroactive. So anything that > > depends on that switch also has to be redone due to its "retroactivity" > > (without retroactivity because that's secured at power 3, and I don't > want > > ANY potential retroactivity escaping that bubble thru rules being written > > poorly, so keep it at power 1. And any wins/asset gains/other agora > > non-retroactive gamestate is not affected by that "retroactive" switch.) > > > > Then, the use case is... well I didn't really think that far ahead yet, > but > > yeah, either by proposal, or someone makes a rule that changes > > unfathomability via X mechanism. > > > > And then the win cons are kinda nebulous too. > > > > So like "Potatoes are a tainted player integer switch. A player CAN, by > > corruption, grow potatoes, gaining an Unfathomable amount of potatoes. > > A player CAN, by corruption, throw 3 potatoes at any other active > player. A > > player who gets potatoes thrown at them becomes ensoftened until the end > of > > time. Ensoftened players CANNOT grow potatoes. A player CAN, by > corruption, > > eat 3 potatoes to become unensoftened. When there is only 1 unensoftened > > player, e wins the game." > > So like, in this example, as unfathomability changes, a player gets more > or > > less potatoes, which affects the entire gamestate of potatoes, but > > eventually, one player wins, and that win persists outside the gamestate > of > > potatoes. > > Ok. I get it. What you are trying to do is set up some structure that > tracks what events happen relating to some scope of values, all depending > on that switch. So, in a sense, you are building a kind of dependency > graph made up of transactions involving switches, assets, etc. > > I was thinking of how to encode this in the most elegant and secure > way possible, but then I realized that it seems limited given your > intention. Certainly, retroactivity should make possible to undo to > any point in the past, not just the begining. So, I'm thinking of > recording the actions but being able to *undo* them given an asset > (e.g. “time crystals”). How does that sound? > > -- > juan > Sure, that seems like an addition, but that makes 100% total sense to add to the self-contained gamestate with retroactive capabilities. Like, use a time crystal, remove an event you did. Or add one. Whatever. But mostly just trying to go for yeah, that dependency graph aspect where one single thing changes (EG unfathomability) and then that causes cascading changes to everything that depended on it. So yes, maybe modelling it as a dependency graph might work better! There are two sides to this: the real-time and the pseudo-time. The real-time game (IE the rest of Agora) shouldn't change, so that officers duties and roles and such are simply and easily determinable. The pseudo-time gamestate is the one tracked by the Phantom (or whatever), and is the complex game/minigame going on. That boundary is important, and is enforced as power=3 (which I would like to retain if at all possible) (IMO making it too abstract makes it unusable or easily exploitable, when it seems complicated enough as is. I am thinking if there is multiple switches, maybe, but I really like having only one single thread of events (one timeline). Maybe some of those events can't happen, or have different effects, but at least there's only a single chronology (which simplifies the understanding in that respect). That's just my opinion though, mostly I just want to get something off the ground so that there is this one thing you can change retroactively, and that changes more thing based on just that one thing. One single weakness in the timeline.) Also, I'm thinking that maybe the goal is itself a CFJ PARADOX, so it doesn't really need a win con, as the win con will come naturally? Maybe? -- 4ˢᵗ Deputy (AKA FAKE) Herald Uncertified Bad Idea Generator
