secretsnail wrote:
On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 6:16 PM Edward Murphy via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
Yes, you can create/submit a proposal by announcement. That doesn't mean
you can create *the same* proposal multiple times
I'd like a better explanation as to why that is, because it seems like
the opposite. Because tou can create a proposal by announcement, you can
create the same proposal multiple times by announcement, but that action
falls under the umbrella of creating a proposal by announcement.
That's what "the" means in ordinary language, and what the creation and
existence of entities means in ordinary language (backed up to some
extent by Definition and Continuity of Entities). You can't create *the
same* instance of anything more than once (unless perhaps it's repealed
or something in between, which is n/a here).
If I announced "81 times, I create the coin in my possession", then that
would be equally problematic (even if there was a rule "Murphy CAN
create coins in eir possession by announcement").
I'd argue this is more problematic just because we don't refer to coins as
"the coin" normally, but we do use "the proposal" a lot more.
It really depends on what entity you're creating, for coins it is strange,
but for promises, for example, it works.
"81 times, I grant myself the promise:
{
I plant potatoes
}."
would be perfectly fine, because we refer to promises that way. The same
goes for proposals. It should be obvious it's not actually one promise
being granted, but multiple instances of the same promise.
An example of this happening just fine:
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2022-April/048821.html
If this should work, so should my proposals.
Also we should really look at the difference between "the same proposal"
and "the same instance of a proposal".
The text in question there was:
I grant the library 3 of the following promise, each titled
"Stamps for Stamps": (etc.)
which more clearly suggests an implied "instances" after the "3". This
is probably also colored by promises being a type of entity where we're
accustomed to someone creating multiple instances with the same text up
front (as opposed to "whoops, I re-submit this text as a proposal now
that some relevant part of the gamestate has changed", or scam attempts
like the recent one, neither of which is as common). And, yes, it's
probably *also* colored by "there was a scam attempt".
In any case, the differences of opinion seem intractable at this point;
best to just legislate something acceptable to all sides, and move on
from there.
