On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:44, James Cook <jc...@cs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:35, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
> <agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:20 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
> > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 6/8/2020 11:12 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:26 AM Rebecca wrote:
> > > >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 11:14 PM Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > >>> On 6/7/2020 9:36 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > >>>>> Amend each of Rule 1023 ("Agoran Time"), Rule 2496 ("Rewards"), and
> > > >>>>> Rule 2602 ("Glitter"), in that order, by changing the text
> > > >>>>> "in an officially timely fashion" to read "in a stately fashion".
> > > >>>
> > > >>> This is another case (like my WILL last month) that adding a word like
> > > >>> "stately" that means nothing is more confusing than "officially
> > > >>> timely"
> > > >>> which at least contains the appropriate concepts (official and
> > > >>> timely).
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -G.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >> Agreed, there is no concept of the passing of time whatsoever inherent
> > > in
> > > >> the phrase "stately fashion". "officially timely" is kind of gross but
> > > it's
> > > >> also something that doesn't matter enough for me to be mad about it.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, there is? From the OED, one of the definitions of stately is "Of
> > > > movement or gait: slow and dignified; deliberate, sedate". So it's
> > > > like saying, "in a sedate fashion". I could use that if people would
> > > > prefer?
> > >
> > > No, I think I'm having the same reaction to "stately" (or any other single
> > > word) that you had when I suggested replacing "CAN and SHALL" with WILL.
> > > The slight extra verbiage in "officially timely" is worth the precision,
> > > in that it ties into other rules-terms ("offices" and "timely fashion").
> >
> >
> > I opine that the two situations are completely different. In the "WILL"
> > situation, the change would break composition. It's pretty obvious what CAN
> > means, and pretty obvious what SHALL means, and pretty obvious what they
> > mean when you use them together, but when you introduce the term "WILL"
> > that gets hidden.
> >
> > By contrast, let's look at the difference between "officially timely" and
> > "timely". Looking at those terms, I have absolutely no clue what the
> > difference is. The word "officially" adds nothing, apart from the idea that
> > it applies to offices. But it doesn't tell me if it's a shorter amount of
> > time, a longer amount of time, or the same amount of them with some other
> > implication. Plus, "timely fashion" also often applies to offices, so the
> > extra word is actively confusing without adding any meaning. You say it
> > "ties into other rules-terms", which would be great if those terms added
> > some additional meaning, but they tell a reader absolutely nothing about
> > what the term actually means.
> >
> > Now let's look at the difference between "timely" and
> > "stately/sedate/whatever". "timely" implies promptness. The other terms
> > imply less promptness. So I can surmise that if an officer had to do
> > something in a "sedate fashion", that means e has more time to do it than
> > an officer who has to do it in a "timely fashion". This would be correct.
> > So it's actually easier for an uninformed reader to understand than the
> > current phrasing, despite adding a new term.
> >
> > -Aris
>
> For what it's worth, I read "stately" as a pun meaning kind of slow
> and also state-related, and immediately liked it.
>
> Thinking about it more, I guess if someone read "the Officiator SHALL
> transfer the Orb in a stately fashion" in isolation, it might not be
> obvious that the "in a stately fashion" has anything to do with time.
> Still, it would be nice to be able to incorporate the terminology
> somehow because it's fun and reads more smoothly.
>
> - Falsifian
Maybe "in stately time" or "within a stately interval" or "with
stately dispatch" or something like that would make it more obvious
it's got to do with time?
- Falsifian
