Ornaments and teleporters would both fit in an "other" category—they wouldn't
need to be both production and processing.
Gaelan
> On Mar 3, 2018, at 3:37 AM, Cuddle Beam <cuddleb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I suggest adding an example along that extensibility to market the idea of
> it better. Swag purely aesthetics ornaments, walls and teleporters,
> perhaps? (Not entirely necessary though, it just makes it look better
> because it has a purpose instead of being blank)
>
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
>> extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
>> paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele <g...@canishe.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a use
>>> case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
>>> production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but
>>> until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
>>>
>>> Gaelan
>>>
>>>> On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater <kprater3...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
>>>>
>>>> Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
>>>> Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
>>>> text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
>>>> A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates
>> it.
>>>> A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
>>> and
>>>> may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
>>> are
>>>> defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories
>> is
>>>> the null set.
>>>>
>>>> A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in
>> its
>>>> Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
>> to
>>>> [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
>>> belong
>>>> to [Category] and no others.
>>>>
>>>> Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
>>> following:
>>>> Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
>>>> facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
>>>> possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
>>>> specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount
>> of
>>>> an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds
>> that
>>>> asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed
>> until
>>>> the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal
>> to
>>>> its carrying capacity.
>>>>
>>>> Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>>> Production
>>>> facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>>>> Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production
>> facility
>>>> specified by the rule which creates the facility.
>>>>
>>>> Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
>>> Processing
>>>> facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
>>>> Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession
>> of
>>>> each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
>>>> assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined
>> assets
>>>> to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
>>>>
>>>> A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
>>> facility's
>>>> inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
>>> facility's
>>>> and the following criteria are met:
>>>>
>>>> 1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
>>>>
>>>> 2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
>>>> that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
>>>> so.
>>>>
>>>> 3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
>>>> facility, or the owner must have consented.
>>>>
>>>> Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
>>>> Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to
>> 1.
>>>> Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
>>>>
>>>> If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the
>> rank
>>>> of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
>>>> announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
>>>> specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
>>>> player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
>>>> other rules.
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
>>>> A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such,
>> having
>>>> allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type
>> switch,
>>>> with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have
>> a
>>>> Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
>>>> Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to
>>> be
>>>> created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
>>>> its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
>>>> facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that
>> is
>>>> not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and
>> anything
>>>> contained within, is destroyed.
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
>>>> Gray Land is Land whose Land Type switch is set to "Gray". Gray Land
>>>> is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land, it,
>> along
>>>> with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, are
>> transfered
>>>> to Agora, and the Land's preservation switch is set to true.
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "Gray Actions" (Power=1.0):
>>>> Players CAN destroy:
>>>>
>>>> 1. 1 apple to move from one Gray Land Unit to an adjacent Unit of
>> any
>>>> Land Type that is not Aether;
>>>>
>>>> 2. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit of any Land Type to an
>> adjacent
>>>> Gray Land Unit.
>>>>
>>>> Players CAN, while performing the above actions, substitute 3
>>>> apples for 1 corn. [Maybe need a good way to say that these actions
>>> can
>>>> be combined with actions described in Actions in Arcadia for the
>>>> purposes of spending corn.]
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "Agoran Monuments" (Power=1.0):
>>>> Agoran Monument is a Category of facilities. For each type of Agoran
>>>> Monument facility, there may only be one instance of that facility
>> in
>>>> existence at any one time. If an action would cause an Agoran
>> Monument
>>>> facility to exist while another Agoran Monument facility of the same
>>>> type is already in existence, that action fails.
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "The Fountain" (Power=1.0):
>>>> A fountain is a facility with Allowed Land Types of {"Gray"}, and
>>>> Categories {Agoran Monument}. A fountain has no upkeep cost.
>>>>
>>>> Create a new rule "Wishing Fountain", (Power=1.0):
>>>> If a player's location is the same as a fountain, e CAN and MAY
>>> destroy
>>>> a coin to Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does nothing, unless
>>>> specified in another Rule. A player MAY announce what e wishes for
>>> when
>>>> e Throws A Coin.
>>>>
>>>> Set (0, 0)'s Land Type to "Gray".
>>>> Create a fountain at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Reasons for rules:
>>>> - "Land Types" needs to be amended to add Gray as a Land Type.
>>>> - "Facility Categories" is an implementation of Aris' suggestion of
>>>> defining facility categories.
>>>> - "Asset Generation with Facilities" is amended to turn production and
>>>> processing into Categories. The actual rules for specific
>>>> facilities can be unmodified, I think.
>>>> - "Facility Ranks" is modified so it's clear what happens if a facility
>>>> doesn't define ranks, like the fountain right now.
>>>> - "Facility Colors" is Trigon's suggestion of "X facilities"
>>>> - "Gray Land" defines how Gray Land works, including Trigon's
>> suggestion
>>>> of specifying that Gray Land is always preserved.
>>>> - "Gray Actions" allows walking on Gray Land.
>>>> - "Agoran Monuments" specifies a Category used for unique structures
>> that
>>>> can only exist one place in Arcadia.
>>>> - "The Fountain" is self explanatory, creates a unique gray fountain.
>>>> - "Wishing Fountain" is just so fountains have a use, even a useless
>> one.
>>>>
>>>> Corrections, fixes, ideas, etc would all be highly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Kenyon
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 3:39 AM, Cuddle Beam <cuddleb...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think non-Proc/Prod facilities would be great. Walls or streets for
>>>>> example would be cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:01 AM, Aris Merchant <
>>>>> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd go with solution 2, but modified. What if we made it so that each
>>>>>> facility could fit into (0 or more) "categories", and defined
>>> Production
>>>>>> and Processing as categories. That way, we could extend it later
>>> without
>>>>>> dealing with an exponential increase in the number of types. It also
>>>>> leave
>>>>>> flexibility if we want to do 3 later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Aris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 2:15 PM Kenyon Prater <kprater3...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I ran into a problem that I figured I'd share and ask for input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Asset Generation with Facilities" specifies that "Each facility is
>>>>>> either
>>>>>>> a production facility or processing facility". The draft up there
>>>>>> specifies
>>>>>>> that a fountain is a facility, but that it neither produces nor
>>>>> processes
>>>>>>> anything. There are a couple solutions that I see:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) A fountain is a production facility that produces nothing, or a
>>>>>>> processing facility that processes nothing. Easy, kinda a hack, but
>>>>> it'll
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>> 2) Modify "Asset Generation with Facilities" so facilities can have
>> a
>>>>>> type
>>>>>>> of any element in {None, Production, Processing, Production &
>>>>>> Processing},
>>>>>>> and fountains are type None.
>>>>>>> 3) Define "buildings" as a superset/superclass of facilities, move
>> the
>>>>>>> shared rules to new rules about Buildings, and have fountain and
>>>>> facility
>>>>>>> be types of buildings with their own specific sub-rules. Easily the
>>>>> most
>>>>>>> flexible, but requires a fairly significant refactor, so it only
>>> really
>>>>>>> seems worth it if this is going to be a recurring problem. If the
>>>>>> fountain
>>>>>>> is the only non-facility-facility we add, we might as well go with 1
>>> or
>>>>>> 2.
>>>>>>> If we're adding a ton of non-production buildings (arenas, houses,
>>>>> roads,
>>>>>>> whatever) then this might be worth it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure if there's a smarter solution here, but I just wanted to
>> get
>>>>>>> feedback to see if people were OK with 1 or if they thought 2 and 3
>>>>> were
>>>>>>> better, or if there's another option I didn't consider.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Kenyon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Reuben Staley <
>>>>> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Comments inline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
>>>>>>>> <thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up
>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>> proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point,
>>>>> even
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the
>>>>> facility
>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>> "fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain",
>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton.
>>>>>>> Something
>>>>>>>>> to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the
>>>>> fountain',
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> (0, 0). It... <properties>." I'd also suggest not referencing
>>>>>>>>> Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision
>>>>> id).
>>>>>>>>> Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> for themselves (my personal favored option).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with everything Aris said here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Aris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater <
>>>>> kprater3...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on
>>>>> writing
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>>> the idea is interesting to people
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The proposal would: {
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is
>>>>> gray
>>>>>>>> land.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically
>>>>>>>> stated to
>>>>>>>>>> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any
>> facilities
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> gray
>>>>>>>>>> land.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
>>>>>>>> facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X
>> is
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some
>>>>> facilities
>>>>>>>> can be on in the future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land
>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>>>> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved.
>> That
>>>>>>>> way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for
>> the
>>>>>>>> purposes
>>>>>>>>>> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any
>>>>> non-aether
>>>>>>>> land to
>>>>>>>>>> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether
>> land.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain
>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> exist
>>>>>>>>>> at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may
>> only
>>>>>>>> exist on
>>>>>>>>>> gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as
>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may
>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither
>>>>> refines
>>>>>>> nor
>>>>>>>>>> produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just "Fountain" please.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My goal with the draft was to to;
>>>>>>>>>> 1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
>>>>>>>>>> 2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors
>>>>>> (right
>>>>>>>> now,
>>>>>>>>>> a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra
>> apple
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>> back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the
>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> color).
>>>>>>>>>> 3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to
>>>>> use.
>>>>>>> One
>>>>>>>>>> could imagine a rule specifying that all players at (0,0) on
>>>>> Agora's
>>>>>>>>>> Birthday CAN [do something]. Or this could be integrated into the
>>>>>>>> justice
>>>>>>>>>> reform; to rid themselves of weevils/blots/whatever, players must
>>>>>>> make a
>>>>>>>>>> pilgrimage to the fountain to give [currency].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very nice. Perhaps Cuddlebeam's idea for arenas could have a
>> physical
>>>>>>>> manifestation on a piece of gray land. This also makes it really
>> nice
>>>>>>>> for future Agora-sponsored activities that take place on a map.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Trigon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
