I'm happy to admit that I may have been wrong on this one. However,
extensibility is important. I was hoping we could do it in a short
paragraph, not a whole rule. What do you guys think?
-Aris
On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:05 PM Gaelan Steele <g...@canishe.com> wrote:
> Sorry I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I think unless we have a use
> case for facilities with multiple types, we should just have a simple
> production/processing/{monument,other} option. This is well-written, but
> until we need it I think it would be better to avoid the complexity.
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On Mar 2, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Kenyon Prater <kprater3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {
> >
> > Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
> > Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
> > text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""
> >
> > Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
> > A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates it.
> > A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it,
> and
> > may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories
> are
> > defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories is
> > the null set.
> >
> > A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in its
> > Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
> > [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that
> belong
> > to [Category] and no others.
> >
> > Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the
> following:
> > Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
> > facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
> > possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
> > specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount of
> > an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds that
> > asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
> > the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal to
> > its carrying capacity.
> >
> > Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> Production
> > facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
> > Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production facility
> > specified by the rule which creates the facility.
> >
> > Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a
> Processing
> > facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
> > Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
> > each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
> > assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined assets
> > to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.
> >
> > A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator
> facility's
> > inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the
> facility's
> > and the following criteria are met:
> >
> > 1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.
> >
> > 2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
> > that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do
> > so.
> >
> > 3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
> > facility, or the owner must have consented.
> >
> > Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
> > Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
> > Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.
> >
> > If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
> > of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
> > announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
> > specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
> > player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
> > other rules.
> >
> > Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
> > A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having
> > allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type switch,
> > with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a
> > Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
> > Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to
> be
> > created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
> > its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
> > facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that is
> > not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and anything
> > contained within, is destroyed.
> >
> > Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
> > Gray Land is Land whose Land Type switch is set to "Gray". Gray Land
> > is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land, it, along
> > with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, are transfered
> > to Agora, and the Land's preservation switch is set to true.
> >
> > Create a new rule "Gray Actions" (Power=1.0):
> > Players CAN destroy:
> >
> > 1. 1 apple to move from one Gray Land Unit to an adjacent Unit of any
> > Land Type that is not Aether;
> >
> > 2. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit of any Land Type to an adjacent
> > Gray Land Unit.
> >
> > Players CAN, while performing the above actions, substitute 3
> > apples for 1 corn. [Maybe need a good way to say that these actions
> can
> > be combined with actions described in Actions in Arcadia for the
> > purposes of spending corn.]
> >
> > Create a new rule "Agoran Monuments" (Power=1.0):
> > Agoran Monument is a Category of facilities. For each type of Agoran
> > Monument facility, there may only be one instance of that facility in
> > existence at any one time. If an action would cause an Agoran Monument
> > facility to exist while another Agoran Monument facility of the same
> > type is already in existence, that action fails.
> >
> > Create a new rule "The Fountain" (Power=1.0):
> > A fountain is a facility with Allowed Land Types of {"Gray"}, and
> > Categories {Agoran Monument}. A fountain has no upkeep cost.
> >
> > Create a new rule "Wishing Fountain", (Power=1.0):
> > If a player's location is the same as a fountain, e CAN and MAY
> destroy
> > a coin to Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does nothing, unless
> > specified in another Rule. A player MAY announce what e wishes for
> when
> > e Throws A Coin.
> >
> > Set (0, 0)'s Land Type to "Gray".
> > Create a fountain at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
> > }
> >
> > Reasons for rules:
> > - "Land Types" needs to be amended to add Gray as a Land Type.
> > - "Facility Categories" is an implementation of Aris' suggestion of
> > defining facility categories.
> > - "Asset Generation with Facilities" is amended to turn production and
> > processing into Categories. The actual rules for specific
> > facilities can be unmodified, I think.
> > - "Facility Ranks" is modified so it's clear what happens if a facility
> > doesn't define ranks, like the fountain right now.
> > - "Facility Colors" is Trigon's suggestion of "X facilities"
> > - "Gray Land" defines how Gray Land works, including Trigon's suggestion
> > of specifying that Gray Land is always preserved.
> > - "Gray Actions" allows walking on Gray Land.
> > - "Agoran Monuments" specifies a Category used for unique structures that
> > can only exist one place in Arcadia.
> > - "The Fountain" is self explanatory, creates a unique gray fountain.
> > - "Wishing Fountain" is just so fountains have a use, even a useless one.
> >
> > Corrections, fixes, ideas, etc would all be highly appreciated.
> >
> > Kenyon
> >
> >> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 3:39 AM, Cuddle Beam <cuddleb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think non-Proc/Prod facilities would be great. Walls or streets for
> >> example would be cool.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:01 AM, Aris Merchant <
> >> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'd go with solution 2, but modified. What if we made it so that each
> >>> facility could fit into (0 or more) "categories", and defined
> Production
> >>> and Processing as categories. That way, we could extend it later
> without
> >>> dealing with an exponential increase in the number of types. It also
> >> leave
> >>> flexibility if we want to do 3 later.
> >>>
> >>> -Aris
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 2:15 PM Kenyon Prater <kprater3...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I ran into a problem that I figured I'd share and ask for input.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Asset Generation with Facilities" specifies that "Each facility is
> >>> either
> >>>> a production facility or processing facility". The draft up there
> >>> specifies
> >>>> that a fountain is a facility, but that it neither produces nor
> >> processes
> >>>> anything. There are a couple solutions that I see:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) A fountain is a production facility that produces nothing, or a
> >>>> processing facility that processes nothing. Easy, kinda a hack, but
> >> it'll
> >>>> work.
> >>>> 2) Modify "Asset Generation with Facilities" so facilities can have a
> >>> type
> >>>> of any element in {None, Production, Processing, Production &
> >>> Processing},
> >>>> and fountains are type None.
> >>>> 3) Define "buildings" as a superset/superclass of facilities, move the
> >>>> shared rules to new rules about Buildings, and have fountain and
> >> facility
> >>>> be types of buildings with their own specific sub-rules. Easily the
> >> most
> >>>> flexible, but requires a fairly significant refactor, so it only
> really
> >>>> seems worth it if this is going to be a recurring problem. If the
> >>> fountain
> >>>> is the only non-facility-facility we add, we might as well go with 1
> or
> >>> 2.
> >>>> If we're adding a ton of non-production buildings (arenas, houses,
> >> roads,
> >>>> whatever) then this might be worth it?
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure if there's a smarter solution here, but I just wanted to get
> >>>> feedback to see if people were OK with 1 or if they thought 2 and 3
> >> were
> >>>> better, or if there's another option I didn't consider.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Kenyon
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Reuben Staley <
> >> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Comments inline.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
> >>>>> <thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up
> >> in a
> >>>>>> proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're
> >>>> going
> >>>>>> for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point,
> >> even
> >>> if
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the
> >> facility
> >>>> type
> >>>>>> "fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain",
> >> because
> >>>>>> there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton.
> >>>> Something
> >>>>>> to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the
> >> fountain',
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> (0, 0). It... <properties>." I'd also suggest not referencing
> >>>>>> Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision
> >> id).
> >>>>>> Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure
> >> it
> >>>> out
> >>>>>> for themselves (my personal favored option).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I agree with everything Aris said here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -Aris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater <
> >> kprater3...@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on
> >> writing
> >>> it
> >>>>> up
> >>>>>>> until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback
> >> on
> >>>>> whether
> >>>>>>> the idea is interesting to people
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The proposal would: {
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is
> >> gray
> >>>>> land.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically
> >>>>> stated to
> >>>>>>> be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities
> >>> on
> >>>> it
> >>>>>>> are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed
> >> on
> >>>>> gray
> >>>>>>> land.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
> >>>>> facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X is
> >> a
> >>>>> land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some
> >> facilities
> >>>>> can be on in the future.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land
> >>>>> becomes
> >>>>>>> Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved. That
> >>>>> way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the
> >>>>> purposes
> >>>>>>> of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any
> >> non-aether
> >>>>> land to
> >>>>>>> gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Set (0, 0) to Gray land.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain
> >> may
> >>>>> exist
> >>>>>>> at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only
> >>>>> exist on
> >>>>>>> gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as
> >>> referring
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>> the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may
> >>> only
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>> owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither
> >> refines
> >>>> nor
> >>>>>>> produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just "Fountain" please.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My goal with the draft was to to;
> >>>>>>> 1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
> >>>>>>> 2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors
> >>> (right
> >>>>> now,
> >>>>>>> a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra apple
> >>> to
> >>>>> move
> >>>>>>> back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the
> >> other
> >>>>> color).
> >>>>>>> 3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to
> >> use.
> >>>> One
> >>>>>>> could imagine a rule specifying that all players at (0,0) on
> >> Agora's
> >>>>>>> Birthday CAN [do something]. Or this could be integrated into the
> >>>>> justice
> >>>>>>> reform; to rid themselves of weevils/blots/whatever, players must
> >>>> make a
> >>>>>>> pilgrimage to the fountain to give [currency].
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Very nice. Perhaps Cuddlebeam's idea for arenas could have a physical
> >>>>> manifestation on a piece of gray land. This also makes it really nice
> >>>>> for future Agora-sponsored activities that take place on a map.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Trigon
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
