The reason I introduced "A reasonably objective definition of "zombiness" is its vernacular use in ethology..." is precisely to *avoid* arguing over the definition of "zombie" by introducing a different *sense* of "zombie" than "philosophical zombie" -- one that is not only "reasonably objective" but -- and this is important to "requirements" -- in the vernacular. Clearly, there is *something* about the word "zombie" that people find "unfriendly" even if they find that sense ineffable. I'm effing the "requirement".
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 5:45 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> wrote: > Philosophy is arguing about the meanings of words. By "zombie" I mean a > philosophical zombie. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie > > On the unrelated topic of friendly AI, we need to define what that means > too. If you read my previous post on AGI requirements carefully, you will > note that the extinction of humans and of all DNA based life falls within > its scope without being explicitly unfriendly. I am open to discussion on > whether this is a good idea or if the requirements need to be refined. (The > issue is whether uploads are zombies. I contend there is no such thing). > > Avoid existential errors. Resist the temptation to skip too quickly to > design. > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 8:20 PM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > >> See my LinkedIn post "A Leggian Approach to "Friendly AI >> <https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leggian-approach-friendly-ai-james-bowery>" >> for background. >> >> My 2ยข: >> >> This is related to the "consciousness" confusion in the following sense: >> >> Matt Mahoney's reductio ad absurdum of of the sensibility of >> "consciousness" relies on its standing in opposition to "zombiness" (is >> that a word?). A reasonably objective definition of "zombiness" is its >> vernacular use in ethology to colorfully describe what, in "The Extended >> Phenotype: The Long Reach of the Gene", Richard Dawkins describes as "Host >> Phenotypes of Parasite Genes". >> >> Take, for example, this video of an altruistic cricket sacrificing his >> life for his little friend <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df_iGe_JSzI>. >> Such "altruists" are frequently referred to as "zombies" in popular >> scientific literature >> <https://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/animals-source/0000016a-2c84-de00-a1fb-edd7b4940000> >> . >> >> In evolutionary medical circles such "virulence" evolves to its "optimal" >> level (ie: optimal virulence) through a battle between two opposing routes >> into the next generation for replicators: >> >> Horizontal Transmission vs Vertical Transmission >> >> Vertical transmission occurs when a parasite's evolutionary fate is tied >> to that of its host through reproduction -- in which case it becomes a >> "mutualist". An example we're all familiar with is the probable >> coevolution of wolves with Cro Magnon resulting in the mutualistic >> relationship between what we call "humans" and "dogs": >> >> Babies and Puppies >> >> Nothing could be more lovable, eh? >> >> Horizontal Transmission is, by contrast, illustrated by the >> path-not-taken with those wolves who thought "Take the baby and run and >> BREED!" >> >> The extreme form of "Take the baby and run and BREED!" is called >> "parasitic castration" in which a parasite actually eats the genitals of >> its host so as to divert resources to itself that would otherwise have gone >> to the host's offspring. The resulting evolutionary "zombie" is entirely >> "conscious", at least in some sense. >> >> However, if we think about "turning the universe into paperclips" as the >> extreme of "unfriendliness", it becomes apparent that there is an >> intermediate station in which an "unfriendly AI" would do something like Turk >> humans without the slightest regard for their reproductive viability >> <https://www.mturk.com/>, ending the human species -- at least that >> portion the unfriendly AI found useful enough to Turk. Are humans who have >> been Turked "conscious"? Perhaps a more meaningful question is: "Are they >> are zombies?" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery > options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T251f13454e6192d4-M58fc1de2570abc931efa7885> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T251f13454e6192d4-Mabd7e426f664b3e02b832202 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
