depends on what gis shows. property line to road center it's an
Individual easement per land owner, property line to row no easement,
On Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 5:41 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
I wonder why there is conflicting information. The state and Farm
Bureau are very much of the belief that every landowner needs to
provide an easement.
Also why ComEd had to remove poles because they didn't have an
easement.
--
Mike Hammett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Hohhof" <khoh...@kwom.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2025 5:25:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
I have a field tech whose dad is a township road commissioner. He
says the town/township/county/state owns the land to the top of
the far side of the ditches on each side of the road, and that's
who you need to contact if you want to put stuff alongside the
road including utility poles. He says utilities will work with
home and land owners, but ultimately they have no say.
-----Original Message-----
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2025 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
Here, farmers will plant crops all of the way up to the gravel of
the road, even if they've ceeded the ditch to the township. I'm
exaggerating, but...
*shrugs* That seems to be how everything around here has worked,
and the state confirmed that it was a major hurdle for BEAD, but...
--
Mike Hammett
----- Original Message -----
From: ch...@go-mtc.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 9:57:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
That is not how prescriptive easements work. Of course each state
writes its own land laws but generally if path, road, street,
sidewalk, walking trail, cattle trail etc has been open to the
public, used by the public, is adverse to the landowner in that
they couldn't plant a crop on it etc, the phrase "open and
notorious" is frequently used, then the public acquires the right
to use the land by acquiescence. Frequently then called a
prescriptive easement. AKA squatters rights. Worth talking to a
real estate expert about. Look up your laws and search for
prescriptive easement and acquiescence.
-----Original Message-----
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 6:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
I don't have any court history to prove one way or the other, but
the state and the IL Farm Bureau both say that there are no public
easements on township roads.
A prescriptive easement or Right of way is probably limited to
whomever has placed it and not the public at large. Around here,
each of the utilities does have a private easement alongside
public roads.
--
Mike Hammett
----- Original Message -----
From: ch...@go-mtc.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2025 6:08:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
If the road and shoulders have been open to the public and used by
the public for a number of years, like 20+ years, there exists a
prescriptive public right of way that you can use. It is generally
an adverse possession doctrine.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Drive
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com>
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2025 11:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
"Rural side roads in IL are a bitch because the government doesn't
own the underlying asset, so you still have to get an easement
from every landowner along the way."
This seems like insanity to me... how does anything ever get ran
underground? Back 10 years ago when I thought ROW permitting was
hard I tried to get private easements for a very small fiber
project. It only took me about 6 homeowners to get to Mrs. "My
daddy was a lawyer and told me never sign an easement" and that's
where the project stopped until we figured out ROW permitting.
How is it that the road exists but there's no really a right of
way for it to be there? I know this situation exists in some
states or there are states where ROW ownership/width is
practically lost to history. It's just impossible to wrap my head
around coming from a state with a very clear and well defined
public ROW law. I suppose I am grateful for that!
On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 1:15 PM < ch...@go-mtc.com > wrote:
OK so frost heave will what? Displace conduits placed 16” below
the asphalt, but not the gasline at 24”?
From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2025 7:51 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
It's not generally done around here. There's a common belief that
frost heave will be an issue. I think you've disagreed with that,
but I don't know enough to argue either side of it.
From: AF on behalf of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 5:45 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
Microtrenching is much faster and cheaper than HDD.
From: AF [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 12:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
$15-20/splice was normal in the past. Volume went way up, and the
contractors are in high demand. An NY specific issue that
compounded the problem was a new rule that you have to pay
prevailing wage anytime you're doing work in a ROW where a permit
was required. That drove up even the non-PW work because they'd
rather do the PW work and there's enough volume that they can be
choosy about it.
Check out the numbers below from a contractor. This chart makes me
want to buy a splice truck and quit this whole "engineer" thing.
If you want to send a crew to NY we'll put them to work and
they'll get rates like these all day long.
PW
Non PW
per location
ct Splice Loc
Rate
ct Splice Loc
Rate
OFDC/ Wall Panel
0
$72.00
0
$45.00
450B
0
$60.00
0
$37.50
450D
0
$52.00
0
$32.50
600D
0
$48.00
0
$30.00
Underground is a separate nightmare. We do it for make-ready
avoidance or in neighborhoods without existing aerial. Almost
everything needs HDD, and the per foot rates would make your eyes
water. Or maybe make your mouth water if you have a crew that will
travel to NY for work.
We do have internal crews, and they are absolutely less costly
than the contractors, but scaling requires more hands. We also
need to be able to ramp up and down, and it's bad optics to hire a
bunch of people for construction work and then have to lay them
off when the projects are finished and you're waiting to get your
next build areas approved by the board.
This is the much-vaunted efficiency of corporations. The secret is
they're not efficient at all -they just have lots of capital to
make things happen. Where your ROI is 10% theirs might be 5%, but
5% of $100 billion is more than 10% of whatever you have.
-Adam
From: AF on behalf of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 2:07 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
I learned my lesson on make ready years ago, so I am 100%
underground now. And frankly, I only splice what I need on the
large count cables. We splice them ourselves so not much cost
there. I have never seen $41/burn before. Most of the time when we
were burning for money we were happy to get $16. BTW, I hate
splicing ribbon. Seems almost impossible to get 12 perfect splices.
From: AF [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 11:59 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
Yeah, city and county permits aren't usually bad. People mean
different things when they say "permit", though. The elco
technically is licensing us to make an attachment to a pole, but
people often call it a "pole permit". We have to complete all the
make ready before we're licensed to attach and make ready is
usually the killer. Pole attachment application fees have been
north of $150/pole in NY since about 2015 when the Elco's
outsourced the engineering work. NYDOT permits need engineer
stamped drawings, and the details they require are time consuming.
RR crossings can be ridiculous. Overall, the cable and placement
of the cable makes up about 1/3 of the cost. So we do spend twice
as much on all the crap it takes to get there.
In that light it's very tempting to say that placing a 288 vs a 96
isn't that big of a deal, but it does start to look like a big
deal once you add everything up. Contractors charge per splice.
Butt splicing a 288 is like $12,000....more if it's prevailing
wage. Your reel length is constrained by the size and weight of
reel that your equipment can handle. Corning ALTOS 288F weighs
twice as much as their 96F, so your doing 3x the splices twice as
often for ultimately 6x the splicing cost. It also means bigger
closures everywhere you're tapping into that cable. It does all
add up.
-Adam
From: AF on behalf of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 11:29 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
I have not found permitting, engineering or fees to be all the
expensive as long as you are not dealing with federal lands. Most
cities are very reasonable.
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mark
Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2025 5:54 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD
The extra fiber needed to do AE isn’t a big deal when you are
building centralized split architecture in mid to dense population
areas, but it becomes pretty cost prohibitive quickly in low
density and with NG2-PON on the horizon with the capability of
delivering 10G/10G over a 40G capacity PON I don’t see much need
for AE anytime soon.
Why is is so expensive? Fiber isn’t expensive - it’s the
permitting, engineering, fees to every government entity,
paperwork, etc. that you have to pay.
Mark
> On Mar 21, 2025, at 4:49 PM, dbernardi < dberna...@zitomedia.net
> wrote:
>
>
>
> But the expensive/important part (fiber) is in place. If the
gubment is going to piss away tax dollars for unserved/underserved
broadband, fiber construction seems like a decent urinal.
>
> XGS-PON can co-exist with GPON on the same fiber so eventual
upgrades are fairly easy. Do combo GPON/XGS-PON at the OLT out of
the gate so a CPE swap is the only thing require for an upgrade to
a shared 10Gb service. When XGS-PON isn't enough bandwidth for the
32 subscribers on a PON, I'd rather replace equipment at either
end than deal with another construction project. Or do a 1:16 split.
>
> Preparing for AE when doing the construction is probably
worthwhile too even if you only light for PON initially, or
mix/match. The cost of deploying high count fiber cable isn't that
significant in the big picture.
>
> And why does fiber construction have to be so (artificially?)
expensive. Buy America will certainly make broadband deployments
more expensive but that's a good thing if it truly provides jobs
and manufacturing investment, but I have my doubts.
>
>
>
> On 3/21/2025 2:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> Is GPON good enough? That can only do gigabit and each port is
2.5G. Should these projects require NGPON? Or maybe every location
should have AE so they can do 100G to start with.
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 2:01 PM Steve Jones <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com < mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >>
wrote:
>> Because in X years they won't be. With fiber they will be upon the
>> same Infrastructure.
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025, 10:59 AM Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com < mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >>
>> wrote:
>> But people that currently have fixed wireless of 100x20 are
>> sufficiently served? How does that make any sense?
>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 11:44 AM Steve Jones <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com < mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >>
>> wrote:
>> they should not allow fixed wireless, they never should have
allowed
>> technology with a short shelf life On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 9:17 AM
>> Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com < mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com >>
>> wrote:
>> Well....
>> https://bsky.app/profile/craigsilverman.bsky.social/
>> post/3lkiye5n2dk2p < https://bsky.app/profile/
>> craigsilverman.bsky.social/post/3lkiye5n2dk2p>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/seq3uoU1L5
>> < https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/seq3uoU1L5 > The
director of
>> BEAD quit. He says the previous rules interpreted the bill to mean
>> that only FTTH would meet the performance and future-proofing
>> requirements. He is claiming that there are proposed rule changes
>> that will allow Starlink but not allow fixed wireless. I don't
know
>> whether the changes /intentionally/ benefit Starlink, but this
guy is
>> crying foul and felt strongly enough about it to resign over it.
>> -Adam
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> *From:* AF on behalf of Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 12:19 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BEAD
>> I’m surprised BEAD hasn’t run into problems because the E
stands for
>> Equity and DEI is now banned.
>> But if they eliminate the E, would it just be BAD?
>> -- AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com < mailto:AF@af.afmug.com >
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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