Oh, right, Canada. Long time ago on a business trip to Edmonton, I asked in a restaurant for a local brew and they brought me a Budweiser. I thought they were making fun of me for being from the US. Turns out there was a Budweiser brewery in town.
I thought I had learned my lesson after ordering a Sam Adams in San Francisco. Nasty stare. I think I was supposed to order an Anchor Steam or something. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Shayne Lebrun Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 12:45 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables Canada sells gas by the liter, about a quarter gallon, has for as long as I've been driving. We're a bit weird; people are measured in feet/inches and pounds, but we'd buy 400 grams of ground beef, not a pound. Short distances tend to be given in kilometers, long distances in approximate travel time. A standard can of beer is 355 millilitres, but a shot is 1.5 oz. We all have one set of wrenches in metric, and one in imperial. It's 19 degrees C outside, but I'm going to preheat my oven to 350f. We tend to think of baking recipes in terms of cups, tea or tablespoons or whatever, but we also tend to know that a teaspoon is 5 ml, a tablespoon is 15 ml and a cup is about 237 ml, but we're also big believers in measuring such things by weight, not by volume. Speedometers tended to have both metric and imperial until relatively recently, and many of us still decipher American speeds because we know that the 55 mph pretty much lined up with 100 kph. Also, in Canada, milk comes in bags, and 'a pint of beer' is legally defined as 20 fl oz, or 568 ml, with an allowable error of +/- .5 ml, and it's legally enforceable. We do not, however, have the equivalent of reinheitsgebot. And Stella Artois is still considered 'import' despite being bottled in Quebec. Shayne Lebrun Senior Systems Analyst Support: <mailto:supp...@lakelandnetworks.com> supp...@lakelandnetworks.com 705-640-0556 | TF: 844-444-4249 Direct: <mailto:sleb...@lakelandnetworks.com> sleb...@lakelandnetworks.com 705-646-1846 x583 | <http://www.lakelandnetworks.com/> https://www.lakelandnetworks.com/faqs/ <http://www.lakelandnetworks.com/> Lakeland Networks From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:26 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables ' EXTERNAL Email Disclaimer CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Exercise caution when clicking on links or opening attachments even if you recognize the sender. They still have double speeds posted in places in the UK and they use F & C for temps. Confusing. Canada used to sell gasoline by imperial gallons (do they still?) which are more than one US gallon. I sometimes refer to our system of measure as imperial units but that fails with imperial gallons. The official term is "US Customary Measure" for the units we all use and love. Except for slugs, nobody but physics teachers use slugs. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 9:19 AM To: <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables I remember going on a sales call to British Telecom in the 1990s with the head of my company's intl division, who was a raving lunatic. He had driven 20 miles the wrong direction and was trying to make up time so we didn't miss our flight out of Heathrow. I saw the speedometer read 100 and thought we were going to die, but calmed down when I realized it was kph not mph. A few days later it occurred to me we were in England and it was actually 100 mph. ---- Original Message ---- From: <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: 8/30/2024 10:05:42 AM To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} I am surprised that it even existed in 1958 as that program was not even announced until the 1960s. From: Shayne Lebrun Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 8:54 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables Say, did you know that the Apollo Guidance Computer, from the first iteration in 1958, did all of it's internal calculations in metric, then converted to imperial for display to the astronauts? So yes, America went to the Moon on metric. Shayne Lebrun Senior Systems Analyst Support: <mailto:supp...@lakelandnetworks.com> supp...@lakelandnetworks.com 705-640-0556 | TF: 844-444-4249 Direct: <mailto:sleb...@lakelandnetworks.com> sleb...@lakelandnetworks.com 705-646-1846 x583 | <http://www.lakelandnetworks.com/> https://www.lakelandnetworks.com/faqs/ <http://www.lakelandnetworks.com/> Lakeland Networks From: AF < <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 9:12 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables ' EXTERNAL Email Disclaimer CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Exercise caution when clicking on links or opening attachments even if you recognize the sender. Totally missed that last part XD There are two kinds of countries: those that use the metric system and those that have been the moon. On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 8:52?AM Ken Hohhof < <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> khoh...@kwom.com> wrote: Because he used metric, or because he spelled it metre? ---- Original Message ---- From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: 8/28/2024 7:40:18 AM To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables OK Euro guy...let the American's get the job done. On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 11:59?PM Ryan Ray < <mailto:ryan...@gmail.com> ryan...@gmail.com> wrote: We use EXFO otdr's on some spans that are 160km and we can get it down to the metre. On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 7:07?PM Josh Luthman < <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: Don't you document where your splices are? If you see your splices every 33k and see it's broken 1 mile from the last splice it should be pretty obvious, no? On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 6:26?PM < <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: Magical device called a fusion splicer. Our reels were typically 33,000' From: Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:51 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables I don't see how you have a 50 mile span. Even if you get 80k reels that's 15 miles. On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:19?PM < <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: When you have spans up to 50-75 miles at times, you have to use longer high power pulses. There is a lot of variability in velocity of propagation, earth temperature, splice slack loops, fiber twist. 1 mile error over 50 miles is only 2%. You can easily be off by several thousand feet. You can't just go dig. You have to go to the closest splice point and test again, even then if you it show the fault 2000 feet away and you dig at 2000 feet you may be off by 20 feet or more. I have been doing this for decades. Takes lots of digging to actually find it. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:01 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables A mile?! IDK how that's possible. Every time we turn a new splitter on the sequentials and OTDR are within a few feet - we lose a couple of feet in butt splices and our sequentials end up wrong. Every new reel gets tested on delivery and it's right on. When we had a broken fiber (ants) it was right on the case. When we had a broken fiber (ribbon got knicked with installation) it was between two cases. On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 3:48?PM < <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: Wow, sometimes looking for gopher damager over 20 miles I have been off a mile. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 1:30 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables So far every time we've used the OTDR it's been accurate within 1 foot. On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 12:55?PM Trey Scarborough < <mailto:t...@3dsc.co> t...@3dsc.co> wrote: The only thing you have to worry about with shorter cables is the reflection. In some instances with dirty connector at just the right connector you can get reflection back in to the transmitter that can cause errors, the tx to shut down or premature failure. This is very uncommon with LR 10G and less optics and can be prevented from making sure you have clean connectors. Check the RX and TX levels and make sure you don't have excessive loss. With 100G its a little different story due to the combined power of multiple channels, but still can be prevented by cleaning connectors, but in some instances Ive had to use attenuation when mixing different vendor optics. The using no launch on an OTDR most automatically calibrating OTDRs will work without one. Your results can be off though. Most of the lower cost ones are also lower powered and have less of an RX sensitivity so they don't suffer as much from the reflections interfering when testing. I can test all day long with my little otdrs without one, but my long range 200k+ units I have to have a minimum of a 1k spool on it or you see ghosts. They will show up as repeating events at even intervals. Not something you will see on shorter runs either. On 8/26/24 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I should note that apparently I used to do this with direct attach cables (DAC) but I think that was a pain, one more thing to stock and to bring with for projects. Whereas I'd always have boxes full of SFPs and fiber patch cords. From: AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 26, 2024 4:20 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables People say you need a launch cable but our cheap china OTDRs have no issues seeing the connector at the end of the patch cable and stuff beyond. I bought a big launch cable back in the day and never use it anymore. Might be different with AE? On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 5:16?PM < <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: Only minimum length I know of is the OTDR dead zone. If that is a problem you purposely lengthen the cable with a launch cable. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 26, 2024 1:59 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables Reddit is wrong. Gasp. Connectors are loss, there is more loss in either one of the connectors than there is the single mode glass. Between a switch/router in a rack what I see all the time is long (like 5/10/15 feet) cables and then put the slack in a loop along the posts. On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 1:19?PM TJ Trout < <mailto:t...@voltbb.com> t...@voltbb.com> wrote: Patchbox makes some great products, their fiber system is pretty slick but expensive. Cable length is irrelevant it's optical budget / Rx signal strength. Normally on 2-20k LR optics you are ok with any length cable, 40km+ needs a pad on short spans. (Attenuator) On Mon, Aug 26, 2024, 8:29?AM Ken Hohhof < <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> khoh...@kwom.com> wrote: Is there a minimum length for a single mode fiber patch cable? I have been using 1 meter cables and they are almost always too long, I'm talking about going between routers and switches in a rack, stuff like that. I see that FS sells 0.5 meter cables, but I saw somewhere like maybe on Reddit someone claiming there was a minimum length. Given SM fiber and LR optics, I don't see how 0.5 or 1.0 meter would be different they are both essentially zero length. 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