The job listing said $15-35/hr as it's starting range. The job description said if you come with no skills other than an ability and willingness to learn it's $15/hr, and any skills you bring will increase that starting wage. The listing was perfectly clear that the $15 was was only for up to 6 months as a training wage and gave typical raise increments.
It also listed a whole bunch of examples of relevant skills which would be considered when determining the starting wage. The person who replied didn't even bother to glance beyond the $15 he picked up in one spot. On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 12:12 PM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote: > You seem surprised that you were turned down when you didn't communicate > clearly up front that the potential employee was being considered for a > $25/hr role? > > > - Jared > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 > *From:* "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <li...@packetflux.com> > *To:* "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange > I listed a job about a year ago with multiple pay rates depending on > experience. > > The lowest tier was at $15 an hour if you have zero experience and a > willingness to learn. It was also very clear in the description that this > was a training wage and would only last around 6 months or less provided > the applicant was able to learn the skill set needed. > > The job description also was very clear that we provide full health care > for all employees, 5% matching 401k after 6 months, and a few other > benefits. > > I got a few responses in the same category that Chuck did. My favorite > was someone that I had reached out to because his resume looked good enough > that I figured they would be a $25/hr person since they had various > technology skills which I could use around here. His response to me > asking him if he'd like to come in for an interview was "not for $15/hr". > That was the entirety of the message. > > I replied with something like "Thank you for letting me know, based on > your response I don't think you'd be a good fit for your organization. > FYI, based on your resume I was thinking closer to $25/hr, but at this > point we're no longer interested." > > I got a slightly longer response back (like 5 words instead of 3) stating > how he might be interested but at that point I wasn't. I figure that > someone who isn't going to take the time to consider a job opportunity > beyond the first number they see isn't worth it to me. > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 9:18 PM Chuck Macenski <ch...@macenski.com> wrote: > >> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a >> lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places >> even in the field of welding pay higher to start." >> >> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves." >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho. >>> >>> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind >>> expands, you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. >>> Personally, I don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about >>> my neighbours and volume levels and having no space to do anything. >>> >>> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or >>> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with >>> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a >>> house). >>> >>> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the >>> single wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down >>> there with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. >>> When they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was >>> nice. I wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer. >>> >>> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable >>> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about >>> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a >>> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than >>> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying >>> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even >>> a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment >>> unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a >>> year for a while. >>> >>> Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and >>> there’s nothing wrong with that either. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Exactly what problems are young people facing? Almost every single one >>>> that wants to can enlist in the military. That will feed them and teach >>>> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out >>>> with the VA and GI Bill. Pell grants, student loans. >>>> >>>> If someone wants to better themselves, they can. Kids today have it >>>> far easier than ever before. Work from home, online classes that are free, >>>> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube. >>>> >>>> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich? If you are broke, don’t >>>> f**king spend. You are making my point for me. >>>> >>>> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and >>>> living in a single wide. Those are human rights abuses man! (said all the >>>> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer) >>>> >>>> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain >>>> does it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”? >>>> >>>> You eat what you kill. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/ >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM >>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>> >>>> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy. >>>> >>>> I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years >>>> old). Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for someone >>>> my age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long >>>> nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without >>>> having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old >>>> folks, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. >>>> >>>> However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You seem to >>>> have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems facing >>>> young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did it, and just a >>>> few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your post. >>>> Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a >>>> trailer" >>>> >>>> Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from >>>> you over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as one >>>> of my core values is to listen to people, even when I think they're >>>> stupidly wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any viewpoint and >>>> that makes me better in everything I do. >>>> >>>> I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues >>>> plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had it, >>>> just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or should we >>>> just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and you got yours, so >>>> the young kids can go pound sand because their $18/hr job should suffice. >>>> (BTW my first "real" job back in 2008 was 35k a year) I was 19. No >>>> schooling, and that would be your $18/hr now. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Defeatist attitude. >>>>> >>>>> Or just jealous? Envy? >>>>> >>>>> In 1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway with >>>>> my 4 kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus ticket to >>>>> get >>>>> out of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to move the family. >>>>> >>>>> Fast forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire. >>>>> Just hard work. At 40 no less, not 50. >>>>> >>>>> And now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that. >>>>> Hell, my garage is bigger than that. >>>>> And my only roommates have been my kids. >>>>> >>>>> But there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain >>>>> periods. >>>>> Doncha only wish you could be like a boomer... >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 3:48 PM >>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>> >>>>> lol. These boomers I swear. Live in your 5 roommate 2000sqft box until >>>>> 50, retire at 87. Bcck in my day I slept in a dirt pile and we enjoyed it. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:41 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Fantasy land >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:54 PM >>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>>> >>>>>> I think ages make a huge difference in a lot of this. If you're >>>>>> talking about a 17 year old, you're still living at home, saving all your >>>>>> money, trying to get out. Sure, $17 an hour would be amazing. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you're 22, you should be able to afford a 1br apartment on your >>>>>> own, you shouldn't need roommates, you should expect that you can save >>>>>> 1k a >>>>>> month for the future, maybe purchase a home by 28? You're going to need >>>>>> to >>>>>> make more than $17 an hour. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 1:10 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Not sure I am getting your point. Young people frequently struggle >>>>>>> when starting out. The struggle is valuable. You get ahead by getting >>>>>>> educated, getting trained, learning skills people will pay you for. >>>>>>> You do >>>>>>> not deserve anything but free air to breath and perhaps water if you >>>>>>> live >>>>>>> in an area where it rains. You eat what you kill. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In your example below you are not taking into account, those with >>>>>>> half a brain will have roomates with which to split all the rent and >>>>>>> utilities. That one move makes it go to having plenty of spending >>>>>>> money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So what is it you want me to learn here? In 1979 milk was >>>>>>> $1/gallon. It is now $4.33. Same price adjusted for inflation ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not buy that the kids now-a-days have it any worse than I did. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cost of a big mac in 1979 was 95 cents. Today, $4.50, same price >>>>>>> adjusted for inflation... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do I need to learn here??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58 PM >>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm going to assume you're not trying to cherry pick statistics and >>>>>>> want to learn and listen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Housing is only one part of the equation. Food, services, fuel, >>>>>>> goods are at all time highs. Rental markets are becoming unfeasible >>>>>>> unless >>>>>>> living with roommates. I'm not sure where or how this mobile home fits >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> with the work in your area. Is there work in the area for your daughter >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> earn $18 an hour? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Talent.com says that at $18 an hour, working for 40 hours a week, >>>>>>> gets you $2500 monthly net. >>>>>>> Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023) | SoFi >>>>>>> <https://www.sofi.com/cost-living-utah/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rent: $1100 >>>>>>> Food (No Restaurants): $253 >>>>>>> Utilities: $300 >>>>>>> Gas?: $400 >>>>>>> I think you yanks have things like health insurance. $100/mo? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to $2200/mo. >>>>>>> You don't get ahead because you're behind before you even start. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now take into account that the average home price in Utah is $500k >>>>>>> and you cherry picked some bottom of the barrel trailer. I can't tell if >>>>>>> you're being serious or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF < >>>>>>> af@af.afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One of my millennial daughters, grown, married, trying to adult, >>>>>>>> lives with her brother and his wife told me that I just don’t >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> how hard it is today compared to when I was younger. So I did a little >>>>>>>> comparison for her: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My first paid job in 1976 was $2/hour. That would be about >>>>>>>> $10.70/hour today. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (I was an unpaid apprentice to a machinist in 1974, and slave labor >>>>>>>> on the farm from 1960 until I escaped). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My first skilled, formally trained, semi professional, utility >>>>>>>> lineman job in 1979 paid $4.50/hour. >>>>>>>> That would be about $18 today. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My first home, single wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost $12,000 in >>>>>>>> 1982. Or about $36K today. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-S-1750-W-Vernal-UT-84078/2070550612_zpid/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So how is it people have it so much worse today? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Too many parents want to be friends with their kids and not >>>>>>>> actually parent. Good news is, if you do a good job of parenting, >>>>>>>> you’ll >>>>>>>> likely have the opportunity out to become friends with your kids after >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> move out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jeff Broadwick >>>>>>>> CTIconnect >>>>>>>> 312-205-2519 Office >>>>>>>> 574-220-7826 Cell >>>>>>>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 14, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson < >>>>>>>> sterl...@avative.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, that’s a problem for sure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All the youth (and some adults) see online is prosperity and wealth >>>>>>>> and entitlement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your definition of existing just doesn’t even come to their minds. >>>>>>>> To use a phrase, they literally don’t comprehend it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was living happily in a one room apartment for $400 a month and >>>>>>>> eating the same PB&J and soup for lunch/dinner on almost no monthly >>>>>>>> spend. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had an old futon bed that I had purchased in college as >>>>>>>> furniture. My monthly output was focused on paying rent and a bit for >>>>>>>> food >>>>>>>> and my car. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was hungry for more, made my way by learning, taking what I could >>>>>>>> find and working my way up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And during none of that did I think to myself, “This is shit, I am >>>>>>>> entitled to more because I exist.” Lol >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My grown kids ask for very little and even then get told no all the >>>>>>>> time, or have conditions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I worry about my younger kids that have spent a lot more time >>>>>>>> online. They still know they get nothing as a default, but they are >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> entitled in language and practice than my older kids. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Society online in general isn’t doing anyone any favors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I mean some of the youtube crap they watch is just inane, and some >>>>>>>> of these people just throw around money like it magically appeared to >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> out of thin air without a care. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is no accountability or explanation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>>>>>> via AF >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:37 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> >>>>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I advertised for hiring yesterday, a no experience necessary, get >>>>>>>> paid to learn MIG mild steel welding. PT/FT flexible hours. We hire >>>>>>>> 17 >>>>>>>> year olds. I immediately got crap from this guy saying that the “young >>>>>>>> people of today” cannot exist on less than $18/hour which is what he >>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>> and he works from home. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lots of people defended my $15/entry level, get paid to learn >>>>>>>> welding position. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He deleted his post then sent me this: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello there, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our of respect for you because it wasn't my intent to cause >>>>>>>> tension, I've deleted my comment on your posting. My only point was to >>>>>>>> emphasize that the going rate for a lot of entry level jobs is much >>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>> than $15 an hour. Welding is a great skill and can open up great >>>>>>>> avenues in >>>>>>>> the future. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot of >>>>>>>> candidates will not even walk through the door because other places >>>>>>>> even in >>>>>>>> the field of welding pay higher to start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I emphasized at my company starting at $18 is just one >>>>>>>> example. We have people here that make well over $50 an hour because we >>>>>>>> operate on a commission structure. But that $18 base is livable when a >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> bedroom is $1000+ in tooele a month and depending on where you live >>>>>>>> it's as >>>>>>>> low as $1600+ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Again, never meant to offend so I am sorry for causing you any >>>>>>>> trouble. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I replied: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So you expect someone to walk from High School directly into a job >>>>>>>> where they can have a nice home, car and things? Wow, without >>>>>>>> learning a >>>>>>>> trade, profession or other skill? Our $15/hour people take home >>>>>>>> $2000/month. Pretty sure someone can exist on that and the smart ones >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> have roommates or live with their parents. And the smarter ones will >>>>>>>> quickly be making more than $18/hour. We have exactly zero problems >>>>>>>> finding as many workers as we need. So your opinion that "youth of >>>>>>>> today" >>>>>>>> cannot exist on $15/hour is just that, unfounded opinion. I guess your >>>>>>>> definition of "exist" is different than mine. You can exist by >>>>>>>> walking, >>>>>>>> riding a bicycle or taking a bus to work. You can exist by eating home >>>>>>>> cooked meals and making a home made sandwich for your lunch. You can >>>>>>>> exist >>>>>>>> by wearing clothes from a thrift store. You don't need the latest >>>>>>>> iPhone >>>>>>>> and Netflix to exist. Read a book. The struggle IS the journey and is >>>>>>>> what creates grit and strong character. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He replied and blocked me: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah Okay Boomer. I was reaching out to be nice but you clearly >>>>>>>> have no idea what life is like for us today. I just bought my first >>>>>>>> house >>>>>>>> at 31 because of how shit things are right now compared to when you >>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> younger. But thanks for proving my point by being an asshole about "my >>>>>>>> definition of exist" >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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