I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots
of google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin
or because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming
and this yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different.
Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not.
I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never
could figure out vi
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Cool. I hope they change the name though.
This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice
in Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to
have the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
More options:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/>
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume. Nobody typically
pays advertised pricing. But, it's still not cheap,
especially at scale. You can buy per instance (or guest) or
license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of RHEL.
Your subscription basically allows you to access their
repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base,
and ability to open cases (with some levels of subscription).
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use
RHEL? I find their web page a little confusing. Is it
$350 or $800? And that’s per server per year, right?
Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license
every year? That seems pretty expensive especially if you
don’t need support and are basically just getting a
distribution and repositories for open source software.
Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing.
The $350 version says no VMs and not intended for
production use. Does that mean you are violating the
terms of the license if you use it in production, or just
their way of saying you can’t open support tickets? And
are there add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic
server application?
For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if
I had to pay upfront or every year. That just does not
sound feasible.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Lincs Chel
*Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
Hi Josh;
OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the
Oracle Linux distro and Oracle. It allows one to
appreciate the context. This will certainly educate and
assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information
gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS
and Oracle Linux distros and where to go.
Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users
that is currently using the free CentOS distro, is most
likely going to be seeking the same in any alternative
they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS. Also
Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source
projects certainly makes one really think hard about going
into their camp; Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind.
Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also
seems to use CentOS as a start. So this will be
interesting as well.
Lincoln
On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Lincs,
One could also say that Stream is also a "direct
binary replacement" for CentOS. In fact, to switch a
CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is modify
your repo definitions.
You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for
Oracle software and appliances, but it usually is. I
didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. You will very
rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to.
Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to
get in bed with. I was in the enterprise sector for
many years and saw first hand how terrible Oracle's
products and software really is. I have watched
companies spend *millions* of dollars on Oracle
products that are barely functional and could have
been replaced with other working solutions at a
fraction of the cost. Nothing you say will convince me
otherwise :) To each his own, though!
Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS
users will want to pay for RHEL/OL. They will just
switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to Debian
(which can be a massive undertaking in itself
depending on how much time/effort/money you have
invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros).
Cheers,
Josh
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel
<lhan...@enc-tech.com <mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com>>
wrote:
Hi Josh;
An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS
dilemma . It seems to miss the objective of
finding an immediate, short-term and/or possible
long-term solution for a CentOS replacement for
the community. If you look at the Oracle Linux
information, it is a direct binary replacement for
CentOS right out of the box; usable right-away.
Nor does it appear to be just an appliance based
product and only meant for Oracle software. That
would be a misleading characterization of their
product and to an inexperienced Linux end-user.
It's almost suggesting to a person, that you can't
run other software on top of Microsoft Windows
unless it came from Microsoft itself, or iOS,
unless it's from Apple and so on. It does however
appear that they (Oracle) are suggesting that you
will get a really great experience with their
software running on top of Oracle Linux rather
than RedHat's version or CentOS or some other
Linux distro. I also think Oracle Linux is being
positioned for the cloud based network in which
all of the big-ones wants to compete
head-to-head. Oracle Linux gives Oracle sort of
control as to an OS you can readily and easily
pick when on their cloud platform that is based on
a well known Open Source Linux. Makes sense for
them to keep it going. I suspect IBM is
positioning itself like that as well. They now
have RedHat on their cloud platform and control
its direction. They're all aiming for AWS and
Microsoft (which has Azure and Windows).
Oracle Linux code and/or OS runs without any
contortions for the end-user, both experienced and
inexperienced Linux users can benefit from this.
Essentially one can basically continue running a
CentOS environment right now if they wish and/or
choose to do so using the Oracle Linux software.
And, more importantly without any subscription
fees, i.e. for free. I think their subscription
pricing looks very reasonable as well for what its
worth especially if you're rookie and on a
budget. Nothing like hand holding from a single
source, than Googling the entire net and wading
through tons of blogs and different ideas when
you're stuck.
Yes, Oracle doesn't appear to always play well
with the Open Source community products. But that
can be perception. But I would say most of the
big companies who use and/or own Open Source
software as their business, don't do things the
free and Open Source users like all the time. All
trying to protect their turf, products and revenue.
Oracle can be seen as the 'evil' one, don't trust
them with a 10-ft pole. Likewise Microsoft,
RedHat, IBM, Amazon, Google, Apple and all those
crazy new free-software licensing terms and models
software companies.
CloudLinux is also an option for a direct
replacement. But this appears to be only by
subscription only for right now. When I had last
checked on it, it was not free and required a
subscription that didn't appear inexpensive. But
more expensive for someone that is usually
accustomed to paying $0.00 for their server software.
Lincoln
On 13/12/2020 12:16 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Sorry, but nobody in their right mind runs
Oracle Linux unless you're using Oracle
software and appliances that require you to
run OL for support.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:22 PM Lincs Chel
<lhan...@enc-tech.com
<mailto:lhan...@enc-tech.com>> wrote:
Hi;
I think another option to consider would
be Oracle Linux. Consider the following
from their blog, news and website:-
* If you are reading this blog, you
are probably a CentOS user and are
in the position where you need to
look at alternatives going
forward. Switching to Oracle Linux
is easy.
o
https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux
<https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux>
* Need a stable, RHEL compatible
alternative to CentOS?
o https://www.oracle.com/linux/
<https://www.oracle.com/linux/>
Another option if you're using cPanel &
WHM is to most likely use them as a good
guide:-
* cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More
o
https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/
<https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/>
And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt
Networks RaQ server era days and/or
BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news &
comments. Probably their posture may be
the best position to take when looking
and/or want to "marry" with a particular
distro which had various roadmaps during
their history.
* BlueOnyx has been available on
CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the
CentOS project never was without
issues and unpredictability.
Therefore we've never been fully
"married" to it. It's always been
more of a matter of convenience
than one of choice. We even
departed briefly from CentOS
during the CentOS 6 days and
favored Scientific Linux 6
instead. Since then we kept our
eyes and ears open for
alternatives and also contemplated
contingencies.
* You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News
CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS
Stream
o
https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail
<https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail>
Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have
indicated the original founder of CentOS
is considering a possible return:-
And like mentioned above: We're
not the only ones whom RedHat
pulled the rug out from under our
feet.
In fact Gregory Kurtzer
(co-founder of CentOS) had this to
say
<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642>:
I am considering creating
another rebuild of RHEL and
may even be able to hire some
people for this effort. If you
are interested in helping,
please join the HPCng slack
(link on the website hpcng.org
<http://hpcng.org>).
Greg (original founder of CentOS)
If you've installed and use cnMaestro and
Cambium's software on CentOS, then the
impact may even be more on your
operations. I am guessing Cambium's
cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS
eventually.
Lincoln
On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for
it, but they're big blue. Not sure
what they're getting out of their
multi-billion dollar purchase, but we
would have to sit in their board room
to understand their thinking. I
wouldn't be surprised to see that they
are saving money by getting all those
community developers do the work for
next to nothing. Sure cuts down on the
expenses in the development department.
The only real issue is which version
of linux you want hook your wagon to.
I used Centos for quite a long time;
mainly because it was "enterprise".
Then it go too "enterprise" for my
taste, and have since switched to
Debian. It's the same, but different.
Same enough for my taste, and
down-homey enough for the small
operation we are.
NBD.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown
via AF wrote:
Linux... linux is free... right?
*From:*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:*Saturday, December 12, 2020
8:39 AM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group'
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
I guess it would have been naïve
of us all to expect no change when
IBM acquired RedHat.
*From:*AF
<af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
*On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020
11:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group <af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
Holy shit, I just took a cursory
look at redhat pricing. Starts at
350 a year per server, physical
server only, and not intended for
production use. 2500 a year for
the data center if I read it right
I run webmin to manage package
updates and BIND. If I'm reading
correctly ubuntu isnt terrible,
just less security patched since
it's all opensource and not
subsidized by a big dog like red
hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
Has something like this happenned
with centos historically? I assume
the linux community will bring
about a comparable solution or
resolution.
This just stinks, I had my centos
process down.
Is this end of life like a microst
end of life where they just keep
patching and saying they mean it
this time for years?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken
Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Supposedly there will be
CentOS Stream? Kind of like
RHEL beta instead of RHEL day
old bread. I guess their
answer would be if you are
using it in a production
environment you could always
pay for RHEL. Or there’s
Fedora. I believe Preseem
runs on Fedora.
*From:*AF
<af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>
*On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, December 11,
2020 10:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos
is dead?
Debian is like Ubuntu ,only
better. ;-)
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Steve Jones"
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, December 11,
2020 5:12:13 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos
is dead?
I've been a peasant my whole
life, is there any other way?
I think powercode is ubuntu
now, so I'll probably go that
route, are there major
differences to it?
I dont like saying ubuntu, too
much like ubnt
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM
Seth Mattinen
<se...@rollernet.us
<mailto:se...@rollernet.us>>
wrote:
On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve
Jones wrote:
> Am I reading all this
right? Redhat officially
killed centos and its
> tombstoned in 2021?
>
> Everything I run is
centos. It's not like I
know centos but I have my
> resource sets on where
to go to resolve anything
that pops up.
>
> Is this just a normal
thing in the linux world
where something is ended
> but actually just
rebrands and keeps going
or is it a legit end of
the OS?
It happens. Someone will
probably fork it and make
up a new distro if
that hasn't happened
already. IMO the main
reason to use CentOS was
because it was rebuilt RHEL.
I gave up on Red Hat about
two releases into Fedora
Core when it became
obvious it was just
rapidly changing garbage
for testing on the peasants
before bringing fixes into
their commercial version.
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