They sure don’t like to be cold, do they?
Not cheap either. I cannot see any reason a single battery would know about or
care about the rest of the circuit, like additional batteries. Perhaps it is
an equalization issue.
From: Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 10:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Cc: Peter Kranz
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
Found this vendor.. pricing seems too good to be true. Not sure why they have
the 2 units in series limitation however, that kinda blows the 48V solution.
Going to order a couple samples for testing.
Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-0000
pkr...@unwiredltd.com
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 11:59 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
Did you order via Alibaba? What did you end up paying for them?
Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-0000
pkr...@unwiredltd.com
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
Not an answer to your question but FWIW I got some 12V/100AH batteries from
Meritsun to use in a golf cart and those have worked very well so far. These
are wired in series to do 48V that the golf cart needs.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com>
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
If anyone is using the lifepo4 rack mount batteries could you comment on which
capacity you went with?
I'm trying to figure out which capacity is the best form factor in terms of
weight size etc.
Strange that the 200ah unit is marginally larger but twice the weight. The
100ah unit just be partially empty inside.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 8:40 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
Ferric Chloride kills the coronavirus.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
My bare pcb provider got the go ahead to restart production Monday.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:54 PM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
Shit, the other thing is when will China be a viable supplier again? Anyone
seeing shipments from China? We use 3 chinese suppliers and they are MIA,
wondering when things will become normal again?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:57 PM Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com> wrote:
Correct..
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lifepo4-Batterie-Lithium-48V-Lifepo4-Lipo_62343352866.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.9.61a95ffebuB5z3
Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-0000
pkr...@unwiredltd.com
From: TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
Peter, so just over 1k$ for 100ah@48vdc?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Peter Kranz via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:
Second calc is wrong:
The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit:
1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $1100 (138 lbs)
@100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or
$.22/Wh
So its actually half the price of my Deka solution per Wh.
Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-0000
pkr...@unwiredltd.com
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
Chuck, something you may want to consider in your calculations is that
I am comfortable taking LiFePO4 batteries to 100% DOD, whereas I never go below
50% DOD for my AGM backup systems. I guess one could make a case that I’m not
cycling my AGM systems very much, so I shouldn’t care about the huge cycle life
penalties of 100% DOD in which case your spreadsheet is still valid.
But assuming we go with the 50% DOD argument, I can fit 4x170Ah AGMs in
the bottom of my racks:
4x Deka 170Ah 12AVR1700-ET @ $495 = $1980 (120 lbs x 4 = 480 lbs)
@50% DOD = 4080Wh of storage in a package 22” deep and 12.6” high or
$.48/Wh
The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit:
1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $2200 (138 lbs)
@100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or
$.45/Wh
So, my conclusion so far is if you are buying relatively expensive
telecom rated AGM batteries and only going to 50% DOD with them, you may be
breaking even with LiFEPO4 based systems.
Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-0000
pkr...@unwiredltd.com
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 10:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
I repost the list.
You can get a front post telecom batt for 16 cents per watt hour. But
yeah, 20 cents is more like it.
If solar flooded cells are OK, those can be had in the 7 cent range.
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 11:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?
I don't know what you guys are smoking :) but SLA/VRLA batteries are
$200+ kh/w unless we are talking walmart boat batteries which are ~$100kw/h, I
just posted two sites with li-ion batteries with many options for 70-100$ per
kw/h ??
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
I think you nailed it. And until commercial Li batteries reduce
price by 1/2 or more they aren't competitive except in special use cases. (RV
and such)... with 1/2 price drop and 2x the performance it's effectively a 4x
difference in requirements and then they equal the utility of wet deep cycle.
They really need to be less than 1/2 the price to be a no-brainer...
On 2/14/20 8:03 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
As I see it, for backup or solar applications, all that really
matters is $/kWH, lifespan, and temperature tolerance (and that generally
doesn't even matter if they're not outside). Are there any realistic advantages
from lithiums other than size/weight? That's obviously important for a cell
phone or an electric car, but it's pretty much irrelevant for what we're
talking about doing.
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
I only care about $/kWH
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
Chuck, if you are after high kw/h and don't mind low density,
the Leaf packs are really awesome, the modules are basically made to be
modularly packed, you can use all-thread. Several off the shelf PCB's available
to make them into 8s, 16s packs with all of the cell voltages already pinned
out, basically a diy kit is available to make them into packs and they are sub
$100/kwh
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:05 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com>
wrote:
all of the batteries batteryhookup.com and bigbattery.com are
_used_ or new old stock, nothing new.
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:02 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com>
wrote:
you get what you pay for, all of these guys guarantee the
models to discharge to the specs they provide or money back
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Robert
<i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
You should be aware, that bigbattery.com is selling
_used_ batteries. For example the 24v "powerwall" 3KWh unit for $699 is a
used unit per Will Prowse. His testing showed 67% degradation from new. What
the cycle life of a 67% depleted battery array is unknown..
On 2/13/20 10:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Hoboy does she have some nice batteries...
From: Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery
packs?
Same here……
Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of
Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery
packs?
I'm afraid to click on that link...
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM TJ Trout
<t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
Also bigbattery.com is another good source
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 AM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
some guy named ron is coming over to charge my
batteries now
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM Brian Webster
<i...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote:
To make sure you get the proper connectors, why
else?
Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah
battery packs?
I wonder why they want to know my gender?
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:22 AM, TJ Trout
<t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
Battery hookup.com has the modules, don't buy
them all guys. They say Daly BMS works good. Make sure you get a bms with low
temp and low voltage disconnect.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 6:26 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
Do tell. Where do you get the batts? What BMS
are you using?
Do you want to resell? I would volunteer to be
logistics and fulfillment if you want.
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah
battery packs?
Guys, every chemistry of lithium battery
(lifepo4, li-ion, lto, etc) are available in 1 to 10 KW modules at less than
$100 a kilowatt hour most of them test between 70 to 99% of the rated capacity
mostly removed from electric vehicles anyways we repurpose them into storage
for our equipment you just need a 48 volt BMS to balance the cells and provide
low temperature and low voltage protection.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:50 PM Robert
<i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
They have three problems.. 1) Cost.. Yeah
they break the bank. 2) low voltage compared to other chemistries, which means
_more_ cost 3) poor efficiency.. You put in 100 watts, you only get 80 watts
out. All of this is from listening to Will Prowse.. He has an excellent set
of tubes on them...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q
On 2/12/20 5:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
these they say are good for subzero charging,
thats what appeals to me and that the subzero doesnt affect discharge rate
On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Andrews
<i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
Lithiums degrade with temps over 130 degrees F
( depending upon
chemistry and if you attempt to charge them
below freezing. Failure can
result from trying to charge below freezing.
Between those extremes
they do pretty well. The below freezing is a
deal breaker for outside
solar. There are manufacturers ( BattleBorn +
others ) that are coming
out with heaters to get around that.
On 02/12/2020 04:21 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I'm wondering how well lithiums hold up
compared to flooded cells in a
> non-environmentally controlled area. I
suspect it's worse.
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 PM
<ch...@wbmfg.com
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>
> In my 42+ years of dealing with
stationary flooded cells is that you
> can
> easily get 20+ years from them if they
are properly maintained and
> kept in
> an environmentally controlled area.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:04 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V
200Ah battery packs?
>
> I think you would expect at least 2-3
times the life with lithium
> (almost all the various chemistries
currently in vogue). You can also
> increase discharge tolerance to 80-90
percent instead of the usual
> lead-acid 50% (or thereabouts).
>
> I think the cost is still a bit over the
top. Maybe another year or two
> depending.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 2/12/2020 3:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Life also matters.
> >
> > Half the cost but has to be replaced
in half the time would not
> be a good
> > deal. With my luck, if batteries die
after 3 years, I'll have a
> big power
> > outage every 37 months. And it's not
just a cost calculation.
> Lugging
> > half
> > a ton of new batteries out to a tower
and then hauling the old
> ones back
> > for
> > recycling sucks. So if someone has
battery technology that lasts
> 10 or 20
> > years, that's worth a bunch.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020
5:36 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4
48V 200Ah battery packs?
> >
> > Charging time doesn't interest me much
in a grid backup
> situation. The
> > cost
> > of the battery per watt hour is
normally my only consideration for a
> > backup
> > battery.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Andrews
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020
4:25 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4
48V 200Ah battery packs?
> >
> > Nice thing about the lithium Iron is
any charger that is programmable
> > will work. And the faster you can
charge them the better. You
> think
> > flooded times of 2-4 hours and with a
big charger the lithium
> banks can
> > charge at 100amps and 1 hour.
> >
> > On 02/12/2020 02:06 PM,
ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
> wrote:
> >> 21 cents per watt hour. That is not
competitive with flooded cells.
> >> And what kind of special charger
would you have to have?
> >> *From:* Peter Kranz via AF
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020
5:36 PM
> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> >> *Cc:* Peter Kranz
> >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4
48V 200Ah battery packs?
> >>
> >> Anyone successfully built a telecom
UPS solution using rack mount
> >> LiFePO4 batteries sourced from china?
> >>
> >> There seems to be endless arrays of
rack mount solutions there:
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48v-100ah-200ah-lithium-ion-bat
> >>
tery_60844575234.html?spm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.6.7e40675elEWkcL
> >>
> >> Prices run about 25% the cost of
locally sourced LiFePO4 solutions.
> >> The selection is crazy however, and
who knows what the gotchas are.
> >>
> >> *Peter Kranz
> >> *www.UnwiredLtd.com
<http://www.UnwiredLtd.com>
> <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> >> Mobile: 510-207-0000
> >> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
<mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
> >>
> >>
>
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> >>
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