If anyone is using the lifepo4 rack mount batteries could you comment on which capacity you went with?
I'm trying to figure out which capacity is the best form factor in terms of weight size etc. Strange that the 200ah unit is marginally larger but twice the weight. The 100ah unit just be partially empty inside. On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 8:40 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > Ferric Chloride kills the coronavirus. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:57 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > My bare pcb provider got the go ahead to restart production Monday. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:54 PM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > > > Shit, the other thing is when will China be a viable supplier again? > Anyone seeing shipments from China? We use 3 chinese suppliers and they are > MIA, wondering when things will become normal again? > > > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:57 PM Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com> wrote: > > Correct.. > https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lifepo4-Batterie-Lithium-48V-Lifepo4-Lipo_62343352866.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.9.61a95ffebuB5z3 > > > > > *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> > Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 > Mobile: 510-207-0000 > pkr...@unwiredltd.com > > > > *From:* TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:36 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Cc:* Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > Peter, so just over 1k$ for 100ah@48vdc? > > > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Peter Kranz via AF <af@af.afmug.com> > wrote: > > Second calc is wrong: > > > > The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit: > > > > 1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $1100 (138 lbs) > > @100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or $.22/Wh > > > > So its actually half the price of my Deka solution per Wh. > > > > > *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> > Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 > Mobile: 510-207-0000 > pkr...@unwiredltd.com > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz via AF > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2020 2:28 PM > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> > *Cc:* Peter Kranz <pkr...@unwiredltd.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > Chuck, something you may want to consider in your calculations is that I > am comfortable taking LiFePO4 batteries to 100% DOD, whereas I never go > below 50% DOD for my AGM backup systems. I guess one could make a case that > I’m not cycling my AGM systems very much, so I shouldn’t care about the > huge cycle life penalties of 100% DOD in which case your spreadsheet is > still valid. > > > > But assuming we go with the 50% DOD argument, I can fit 4x170Ah AGMs in > the bottom of my racks: > > > > 4x Deka 170Ah 12AVR1700-ET @ $495 = $1980 (120 lbs x 4 = 480 lbs) > > @50% DOD = 4080Wh of storage in a package 22” deep and 12.6” high or > $.48/Wh > > > > The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit: > > > > 1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $2200 (138 lbs) > > @100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or $.45/Wh > > > > So, my conclusion so far is if you are buying relatively expensive telecom > rated AGM batteries and only going to 50% DOD with them, you may be > breaking even with LiFEPO4 based systems. > > > > > *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> > Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 > Mobile: 510-207-0000 > pkr...@unwiredltd.com > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com > *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2020 10:33 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > I repost the list. > > > > You can get a front post telecom batt for 16 cents per watt hour. But > yeah, 20 cents is more like it. > > If solar flooded cells are OK, those can be had in the 7 cent range. > > > > *From:* TJ Trout > > *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2020 11:20 AM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > I don't know what you guys are smoking :) but SLA/VRLA batteries are $200+ > kh/w unless we are talking walmart boat batteries which are ~$100kw/h, I > just posted two sites with li-ion batteries with many options for 70-100$ > per kw/h ?? > > > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > > I think you nailed it. And until commercial Li batteries reduce price by > 1/2 or more they aren't competitive except in special use cases. (RV and > such)... with 1/2 price drop and 2x the performance it's effectively a 4x > difference in requirements and then they equal the utility of wet deep > cycle. They really need to be less than 1/2 the price to be a no-brainer... > > On 2/14/20 8:03 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: > > As I see it, for backup or solar applications, all that really matters is > $/kWH, lifespan, and temperature tolerance (and that generally doesn't even > matter if they're not outside). Are there any realistic advantages from > lithiums other than size/weight? That's obviously important for a cell > phone or an electric car, but it's pretty much irrelevant for what we're > talking about doing. > > > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > I only care about $/kWH > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:05 PM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > > > Chuck, if you are after high kw/h and don't mind low density, the Leaf > packs are really awesome, the modules are basically made to be modularly > packed, you can use all-thread. Several off the shelf PCB's available to > make them into 8s, 16s packs with all of the cell voltages already pinned > out, basically a diy kit is available to make them into packs and they are > sub $100/kwh > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:05 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > all of the batteries batteryhookup.com and bigbattery.com are _used_ or > new old stock, nothing new. > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:02 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > you get what you pay for, all of these guys guarantee the models to > discharge to the specs they provide or money back > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > > You should be aware, that bigbattery.com is selling _used_ batteries. > For example the 24v "powerwall" 3KWh unit for $699 is a used unit per Will > Prowse. His testing showed 67% degradation from new. What the cycle life > of a 67% depleted battery array is unknown.. > > On 2/13/20 10:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > Hoboy does she have some nice batteries... > > > > *From:* Brian Webster > > *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM > > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > Same here…… > > > > Thank you, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > > > *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On > Behalf Of *Mathew Howard > *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:41 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > I'm afraid to click on that link... > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:50 AM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > Also bigbattery.com is another good source > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > some guy named ron is coming over to charge my batteries now > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:20 AM Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com> > wrote: > > To make sure you get the proper connectors, why else? > > > > Thank you, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > > > *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On > Behalf Of *Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:42 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > I wonder why they want to know my gender? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:22 AM, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > > > Battery hookup.com has the modules, don't buy them all guys. They say > Daly BMS works good. Make sure you get a bms with low temp and low voltage > disconnect. > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 6:26 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > Do tell. Where do you get the batts? What BMS are you using? > > Do you want to resell? I would volunteer to be logistics and fulfillment > if you want. > > > > *From:* TJ Trout > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:19 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > Guys, every chemistry of lithium battery (lifepo4, li-ion, lto, etc) are > available in 1 to 10 KW modules at less than $100 a kilowatt hour most of > them test between 70 to 99% of the rated capacity mostly removed from > electric vehicles anyways we repurpose them into storage for our equipment > you just need a 48 volt BMS to balance the cells and provide low > temperature and low voltage protection. > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020, 5:50 PM Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > > They have three problems.. 1) Cost.. Yeah they break the bank. 2) low > voltage compared to other chemistries, which means _more_ cost 3) poor > efficiency.. You put in 100 watts, you only get 80 watts out. All of > this is from listening to Will Prowse.. He has an excellent set of tubes > on them... > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q > > On 2/12/20 5:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > these they say are good for subzero charging, thats what appeals to me and > that the subzero doesnt affect discharge rate > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote: > > Lithiums degrade with temps over 130 degrees F ( depending upon > chemistry and if you attempt to charge them below freezing. Failure can > result from trying to charge below freezing. Between those extremes > they do pretty well. The below freezing is a deal breaker for outside > solar. There are manufacturers ( BattleBorn + others ) that are coming > out with heaters to get around that. > > On 02/12/2020 04:21 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: > > I'm wondering how well lithiums hold up compared to flooded cells in a > > non-environmentally controlled area. I suspect it's worse. > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 6:20 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com > <ch...@wbmfg.com%20%0b>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com <ch...@wbmfg.com>>> > wrote: > > > > In my 42+ years of dealing with stationary flooded cells is that you > > can > > easily get 20+ years from them if they are properly maintained and > > kept in > > an environmentally controlled area. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill Prince > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:04 PM > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <af@af.afmug.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > I think you would expect at least 2-3 times the life with lithium > > (almost all the various chemistries currently in vogue). You can also > > increase discharge tolerance to 80-90 percent instead of the usual > > lead-acid 50% (or thereabouts). > > > > I think the cost is still a bit over the top. Maybe another year or > two > > depending. > > > > > > bp > > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > > On 2/12/2020 3:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > > Life also matters. > > > > > > Half the cost but has to be replaced in half the time would not > > be a good > > > deal. With my luck, if batteries die after 3 years, I'll have a > > big power > > > outage every 37 months. And it's not just a cost calculation. > > Lugging > > > half > > > a ton of new batteries out to a tower and then hauling the old > > ones back > > > for > > > recycling sucks. So if someone has battery technology that lasts > > 10 or 20 > > > years, that's worth a bunch. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%0b>> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com <ch...@wbmfg.com>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 5:36 PM > > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <af@af.afmug.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > > > Charging time doesn't interest me much in a grid backup > > situation. The > > > cost > > > of the battery per watt hour is normally my only consideration > for a > > > backup > > > battery. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Robert Andrews > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:25 PM > > > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <af@af.afmug.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > > > > > Nice thing about the lithium Iron is any charger that is > programmable > > > will work. And the faster you can charge them the better. You > > think > > > flooded times of 2-4 hours and with a big charger the lithium > > banks can > > > charge at 100amps and 1 hour. > > > > > > On 02/12/2020 02:06 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com > <ch...@wbmfg.com>> > > wrote: > > >> 21 cents per watt hour. That is not competitive with flooded > cells. > > >> And what kind of special charger would you have to have? > > >> *From:* Peter Kranz via AF > > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:36 PM > > >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <af@af.afmug.com>> > > >> *Cc:* Peter Kranz > > >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs? > > >> > > >> Anyone successfully built a telecom UPS solution using rack mount > > >> LiFePO4 batteries sourced from china? > > >> > > >> There seems to be endless arrays of rack mount solutions there: > > >> > > >> > > > https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/48v-100ah-200ah-lithium-ion-bat > > >> > tery_60844575234.html?spm=a2700.details.pronpeci14.6.7e40675elEWkcL > > >> > > >> Prices run about 25% the cost of locally sourced LiFePO4 > solutions. > > >> The selection is crazy however, and who knows what the gotchas > are. > > >> > > >> *Peter Kranz > > >> *www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.UnwiredLtd.com> > > <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> > > >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 > > >> Mobile: 510-207-0000 > > >> pkr...@unwiredltd.com <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com > <pkr...@unwiredltd.com>> > > >> > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> -- > > >> -- > > >> AF mailing list > > >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <AF@af.afmug.com>> > > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > >> > > >> > > > -- > > > AF mailing list > > > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <AF@af.afmug.com>> > > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <AF@af.afmug.com>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com <AF@af.afmug.com>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
