I promise, at some point in the future, we will be able to gauge how
appropriate the response was.
Should I buy or should I sell?
*From:* Steven Kenney
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:18 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
I know zero who've even contracted it! I heard through a grapevine
someone someone else knows got it. But other than that nobody.
Its great people are airing on the side of caution but this got taken to
an extreme that was blown out of proportion to magnitudes that only can
be described as .... suspicious.
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
*To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 2:12:47 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
I read an interesting blog post the other day about flu death estimates
from the CDC. The CDC estimates from 12,000 - 60,000 flu deaths
annually. And yeah that's in the same ballpark with auto accidents. But
then consider that Including people I know and people within a degree or
two of me, I can easily think of a dozen people who died in car
accidents. I know zero people who died of the flu.
The piece I was reading was regarding how many confirmed flu deaths
doctors actually see and typically they say "I remember one case a few
years ago" or similar. If there were truly 12,000 to 60,000 flu deaths
every year, then doctors in hospitals would see likely see several every
year. Apparently the CDC estimates flu deaths, and assumes that a
certain percentage of other causes of death were actually caused by the
flu, including pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic
obstructive pulmonary disease. You can read this on the CDC's FAQ about
flu: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm.
The blogger then speculated that they might err on the high side for flu
deaths because they want people to take it seriously and get
vaccinated. I couldn't say if that's true. After reading it, it does
seem pretty obvious that for whatever reason they've been overcounting
flu deaths. If they weren't then we would all be statistically very
likely to know of several people who died of the flu.
In any case we don't /really/ know how many people die of the flu
either. But we do know, as Ken alludes, we don't typically fill refer
trucks with flu victims for lack of a place to put the bodies. Even if
we can't agree on specific numerical details, we can directly observe
that something abnormal /and not flu like/ is happening.
On 5/6/2020 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
AIER is not a neutral source, according to Wikipedia it is devoted
to educating Americans on “the value of personal freedom, free
enterprise, property rights, limited government and sound money”.
Sounds like a libertarian think tank. I don’t pay much attention to
“think tanks”. That seems to be a synonym for partisan advocacy
group funded by rich donors, and a place for ex government officials
to park when their party is out of power.
Wikipedia says the CDC estimated that flu killed LESS THAN 100,000
Americans, and that was over 2 years.
I was in college in 1968/1969. I did not go to Woodstock, take
drugs, or roll around in the mud. No comment on music and sex. I
don’t remember particularly high death rates at the time, certainly
they didn’t run out of places to stack the bodies.
*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:04 PM
*To:* af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Woodstock happened in the middle of a pandemic. Whats the
difference now?
t was the summer of love: in 1969 a half a million people gathered
together to listen to music, take drugs, have sex, roll around in
the mud, and share a densely populated area for one long weekend.
And guess what? The whole thing happened during a health pandemic.
In 1968 the H3N2 pandemic came to the US from Hong Kong. *It killed
more than 100,000 Americans, mostly over the age of 65, which was
more combined fatalities than both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.*
<https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html>Schools,
movie theaters, bars, tattoo parlors, restaurants, and, of course,
concerts venues stayed open. The stock market didn’t crash, Congress
didn’t issue a lock down order, the Federal reserve had no
involvement, there was no spike in the suicide rate, violent
criminals weren’t freed from jail, and nobody arrested surfers or
hair stylists.
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org>
*To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:28:04 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Swiss Doctor the FACTS about Covid19
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
Fact #1 is disturbing already.
According to data from the best-studied countries and regions, the
lethality of Covid19 is on average about 0.20%
<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC3kW1sMu0sjnT_vP1sh4zL0tF6fIHbA6fcG5RQdqSc/>,
which is in the range of a severe influenza
<https://www.ebm-netzwerk.de/en/publications/covid-19>(flu) and
about twenty times lower than originally assumed
<https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-age-countries-2020-3>by
the WHO.
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org>
*To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:12:52 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
More interesting reading.
Here is an interesting site I've been following that shows the
mutations, and branches of mutations and their genomes.
https://nextstrain.org/ncov
Lets take all the figures into proportion. Is this worse than
previous bad years?
http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/
Are shutdowns really having any tangible effect? Several medical
papers have been submitted, here is just one.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1
*"**Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no
evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic."*
The 6 foot rule effective?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/01/two-metre-rule-reviewed-amid-hope-relaxed-restrictions-could/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256109/Social-distancing-two-metres-apart-based-figure-says-government-adviser.html
" Social distancing orders for people to keep two metres apart to
stop the spread of *coronavirus*
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/coronavirus/index.html>is not
based on any scientific research, a government adviser has said."
The Brits had a similar health crisis in 68'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/02/britain-handled-1968-flu-epidemic-shutdown-avoided-second-wave/
I've also attached a picture that was leaked early on when it was
detected(of a piece of the actual genome). It shows some
interesting differences that don't adhere to the normal mutation
process of a corona virus. They are claimed to be "insertions".
--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
*To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:50:24 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Cats are trouble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG5mOd8Ubsk
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:29 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Utah cats are easier to herd than NY cats.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 5/5/2020 5:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now.
*From:*Bill Prince
*Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM
*To:*af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about all the
different strains of the virus they've identified? If we get a
vaccine in a year or so, it will probably end up being only
useful for a strain of the virus that has died out by then.
I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I
digress). It is about the best description of R, R0 (R nought),
and other variations of R. The point being is that I
misunderstood the concept of "flattening the curve". I had
thought that reducing the spread would end up infecting the same
number of people over a longer period of time (so that we don't
overwhelm the health system). Turns out, that if it's done
right, you don't flatten the curve, but you crush the curve. I
also believe that the widely varied infection/death rates comes
from a wide variety of factors; population density, version of
the virus(es) that are "local", extent of social distancing,
etc. etc. However, getting 330 million Americans to follow a
plan is way, way worse than herding cats.
https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers
saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious
strain that has pushed out its less aggressive predecessor
in Europe and the US east coast. That certainly throws cold
water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to
build.
Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate
change before it) is starting to make me think we are no
better at handling new threats than the dinosaurs were when
an asteroid triggered an ice age. And that we may all (not
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the
dinosaurs. I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months
and we’re turning on each other and shooting guards at
Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our
neighbors. (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Need to see if they will float first.
*From:*James Howard
*Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even
agree on what they agree about.
I certainly don’t agree with #2. It is most certainly WAY
more contagious and easily spread than “the flu” but until
we’ve gone a full year we won’t know what the actual % death
rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates about
what is counted).
One of the articles posted along the way here stated that
this is about 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but
the actual rate of death to cases is lower. What is the
definition of being “more deadly”?
I disagree about shooting everyone though. I think we
should all be burned at the stake. This of course leads to
arguments about what kind of fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if
nobody steps up, ill argue it
settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of
science
i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to
do with the disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot
less disagreement that way. Would never work though, we
would never get past the caliber argument to even get to
shooting
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews
<i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
Not sure about a4. I don't think Hong Kong, South
Korea, New Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but
that depends upon
what statistics you are talking about. Hong Kong
stands out the most.
Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you
will wonder WTF
are they making it all up? Could be, but most think
they are accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew
what they were
doing more than any other country. 4 deaths.
On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily. These are facts that
probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be.
(statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar
statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be
specific (old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are
100%
> accurate. There are cases all over of under reporting and
over reporting.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in
previous
> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the
NYT article,
> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they
go into).
> We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a
heart attack
> died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an
unrelated
> heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid,
and whether
> they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really
matter. If
> say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for
the past 5
> years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely
blame 5,000
> of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000
people
> actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu
anyway,
> and it just happened to be covid that finished them off
instead, or if
> 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they
jumped off a
> bridge and were never infected.
> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers
of how many
> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in
Utah), but in
> a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how
many excess
> deaths there were.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>
> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as
biased. But
> if you read the article, they go out of their way to
point out
> possible errors in the data, as well as other influences
like
> overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other
causes,
> but also less deaths due to traffic and violence. And
the data as
> Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make
them up to
> suit a political agenda or bias.____
>
> __ __
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html____
>
> __ __
>
> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
> because the system was overwhelmed. Even in NYC, the
morgues and
> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in
refrigerated
> semis, you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal
deaths
> being mislabeled as Covid related to suit an agenda.
Then you have
> all the prison and nursing home deaths. OK, sure,
elderly people
> croak all the time, it’s a hoax.____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill
Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?____
>
> __ __
>
> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government
> sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and
morgues are
> supplying the numbers. There is a level of uncertainty
because of
> different criteria. That is true for the US cases, but
probably not
> for other countries. For example, the numbers coming from
China (and
> several other countries) are by design government based.
But to
> brush them all off as "government or corporations" is
being naive at
> least.____
>
> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions.
> Maybe a high percentage, but it does not explain why such
a large
> number of otherwise healthy people are being infected
the way they
> are. At some point, we will figure out that there is a
genetic or
> environmental factor that we just do not understand
yet.____
>
> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also
> do not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either.
Where
you cut
> off is probably a personal thing.____
>
> bp____
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____
>
> __ __
>
> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:____
>
> You guys work with statistics much? You think the numbers are
> accurate? At what point have you ever seen
government or
> corporations represent 100% accurate numbers?____
>
> __ __
>
> I'll let you do your own homework. But I've seen hundreds of
> reports from all over the place of deaths of natural
causes
> being classified as covid deaths. Since most
patients have
> existing conditions and many were already dying and
died of
> those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are being
> attributed to covid. Some people have estimated that
upward of
> 20% misrepresented. So as long as there is 1 case
that is
> questionable - the statistics are not accurate. ____
>
> __ __
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)____
>
> __ __
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>
> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?____
>
> __ __
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can
> do when we don't actually test all the suspected
infections. It
> also (probably) missed a whole lot of the early
deaths, as they
> were miss-classified. If you think under-ground
near-do-wells
> are planted in all the hospitals around the country
and are
> coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us,
then I have a
> tin hat that might fit real well.____
>
> __ __
>
> bp____
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____
>
> __ __
>
> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:____
>
> Numbers are completely false. Even with that taken into
> regard it still is just as lethal as the regular
flu. While
> it is way more harsh on people if they get it,
most people
> have underlying conditions, or didn't know they
had them, or
> didn't take it serious when they got it. ____
>
> __ __
>
> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further
> their agenda. ____
>
> __ __
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)____
>
> __ __
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *"chuck" <ch...@wbmfg.com> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?____
>
> __ __
>
> image____
>
> ____
>
> Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...
> Let’s hope we are on the tail of a normal curve.
____
>
> 6 days in a row decline. But it has done this cycle 3 times
> before with a huge spike after. ____
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____
>
>
>
> ____
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____
>
>
>
> ____
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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