You only have a handful of seconds to figure out which engine quit and take positive action. If you're guessing (and most part-time pilots will be guessing at this point), and take the wrong action, you have compounded an already serious situation.
Cessna Skymast (AKA "mixmaster" to some) has the engines mounted on the centerline (one pusher and one tractor), so at least doesn't have the adverse yaw problem. Unfortunately, it can barely stay in the air with only one engine turning, so you are still in a pickle.
I only know of one twin engine that can handle an engine out with decorum, and it's a homebuilt; the Rutan Defiant.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/12/2019 1:50 PM, Robert wrote:
Which is exactly turning it into a single engine with the same problem and probably would have saved the lives of the people in the King Air two months? ago....On 11/12/19 1:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:And the engine problems always seem to be departure problems. So worst possible place for this to happen. I had a multi engine buddy that said if it ever happened to him he was just going to pull back both throttles and look for a place to land.-----Original Message----- From: Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 1:37 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bad stock tips I've always felt that twin engine private aircraft doubles the probability of an engine-out emergency. The problem is that anyone who is not a full time pilot is too unpracticed to determine WHICH engine is out fast enough to fix the problem before it gets out of control.Better in my mind to have one engine, and know exactly what you need to do.bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/12/2019 10:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:https://youtu.be/s3LrsvaCUoo Amazing.Two previous flights had the same problem. And the pilots figured out how to turn off the trim on those flights.Why did they not take the aircraft out of service with either of the two previous problem flights.Whole cascade of problems.Runaway trim is no fun. Lots of yoke pressure needed while your brain catches up with the aircraft. Then once you figure it off and kill the trim, you still have to maintain yoke pressure while you manually spin it back.I had it happen going into Monterey once. Snuck up on me as the autopilot was attempting to keep altitude while power was reduced.-----Original Message----- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:58 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT bad stock tips The point of pilot inputs stronger then MCAS was the whole debate. When originally installed MCAS was weaker, then modified at the last minute. For some of the best info on MCAS, follow the blancoliro channel on youtube. You will get up to speed on the whole shebang... On 11/12/2019 09:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:It was more than just software. AOA sensors can malfunction. The mere fact they made AOA sensor redundancy optional opened the door to this fiasco.The other issue that doesn't get enough attention is pilot training/proficiency. When automatic systems hit boundary conditions, it helps to know what your options are.bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/12/2019 8:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:Nobody mentions the Airbus angle of attack sensors that caused a Lufthansa to almost crash. They had the luxury of altitude or it would have been a similar disaster. According to the interwebs, AOA sensors have caused 50 similar type of situations in the past five years over a wide spectrum of aircraft.Apparently one brand fails more than another common brand.Sensor failure happens. Software can make it less or more of a problem. Training can make it non fatal.The MCAS software was to blame here.I also do not believe that any automated control input system should be stronger than the pilots. Moreover, if the pilots are putting in an input opposite that of an onboard system, something should disconnect the onboard system automatically I would think. Imagine getting into a wrestling match with your Tesla that decided to take an off ramp.*From:* Bill Prince *Sent:* Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:22 AM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT bad stock tipsYup. Moving those engines forward to make clearance was a change that really narrowed the CG box. My own thought was to figure out a way to make the landing gear longer without affecting the CG. Oh well. They made their bed...bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 11/12/2019 8:15 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:The newer high efficiency engines are too big to fit under the wings. The engineers told them it wouldn't work. The original plan was to start working on designing a new plane, but they were afraid of losing business to neo so the engineers were told to make it work. In order to do this, they pushed the engines up and mostly in front of the wing which pushed CG forward and moved center of thrust. This lead to a plane that needs a much narrower flight envelope, i.e it doesn't want to fly in a lot of attitudes where a real 737 is fine.------------------------------------------------------------------------On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 9:48 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Why do you believe it is inherently flawed?It is a 737, the airframe with the best track record on the planet.It is too bad they did not have a voting/contention algorithmbetween the two angle of attack sensors and chose to only use oneas the authoritative source. That was a boneheaded codingdecision. The other sensor had live data on the network that wasthere for the using. It is too bad the pilots failed to absorb the training updatetelling them to switch off the system when it was causing controlinputs that were obviously wrong. It is too bad the pilots did not simply switch it off. I have had runaway trim motors try to do this to me before and that is something you learn during primary training. Even then, you can recover almost all upsets with “push-power-rudder-roll-climb”. It is too bad that Boeing did not immediately tell operators to cease using that system after the first crash.But this is just one system amongst hundreds on the aircraft, alltried and true for many years. *From:* Carl Peterson *Sent:* Tuesday, November 12, 2019 7:18 AM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT bad stock tips The Max is inherently flawed and I'd generally say don't bet on things with inherent flaws. Think F35 and how long it took toget that kind of sort of right. The CG is too far forward. Perhaps if they stretched the aft section a little and swept thewings back a little but then it wouldn't be a 737 anymore. I have an idea of building up a list of ISPs with rural exposure and shorting them because Sarlink is going to blow up a lot of their business model. In particular, I'd look for double play ISPs with ARPU above about 75.On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 9:39 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:Boeing is going to have a good year. The MAX 737 saga is coming to an end and their while system will be better because of it. And then it will be forgotten. Just like VW emissions testing... Even so, I am going to stick with my super high priced index fund. It is at a historical high and I still dumped more money into it. *From:* Ken Hohhof *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2019 8:26 PM *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT bad stock tipsSomething like 6 months ago my financial advisor convinced meto sell my GM stock and buy Boeing. I’ve suspected I did something stupid ever since. Getting out of GM was probably OK, but I think Boeing has plenty of room to drop. I am afraid investors may dump BA as end of year approaches toclean up their portfolio or take tax losses, and in any case,they are not looking like a well run company. So if you want to double down on your Moviepass adventure, you could buy a bunch of Boeing.Or how about Frontier Communications? A bargain at less than$1. 5 years ago they were at $100. Bloomberg article a couple days ago says they are looking for a new CEO ahead ofan expected bankruptcy filing. Which was totally predictablewhen they took on a mountain of debt to buy all the areas that Verizon and AT&T didn’t want. It has to be bottoming out. No where to go but up, right?*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown*Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2019 9:03 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT bad stock tips I am thinking of following up my strategic Moviepassinvestment with one in PG&E. It has to be bottoming out. Nowhere to go but up, right?-------------------------------------------------------------------------- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707-------------------------------------------------------------------------- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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