It all comes down to ROI. It doesn't pay to have redundant fiber rings sometimes so they don't do it.
70 miles is nothing. I'm sure in Colorado or Montana, etc there's plenty of fiber that is a stub where there's hundreds of miles with no redundancy. Or if you order a wavelength cross country, there could be thousands of miles with zero redundancy unless you pay big bucks to have a second geographic route. Customers simply think fiber is bulletproof and as long as it isn't cut, that's mostly true. But cuts are frequent and take awhile to fix and people don't expect that. On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 11:10 PM Colin Stanners <cstann...@gmail.com> wrote: > Any fiber provider who doesn't have redundancy for a 70 mile run should be > out of business. Cuts happen and should be planned for... But it's not > obvious to customers which companies have their network properly designed. > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 11:04 PM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote: > >> We've also seen business customers leave us for fiber because it's >> "fiber" and when we followup after 6 months, they inform us of the 2 or 3 >> fiber cuts they had with them and how we were actually more reliable. >> >> Funny how they don't believe our redundancy claims until they deal with >> their new fiber provider who doesn't have any redundancy for 70 miles of >> fiber. >> >> We monitor all fiber cuts in Minnesota and the average is 20 hours to >> fix, the best I've seen in 7 years is 7 hours and worst is 72 hours. >> >> It's a battle trying to convince people that our backhaul network is more >> reliable than fiber networks that aren't on rings. >> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 4:29 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Microwave backhaul is probably the most reliable thing there is. If >>> power is provided at both end points and neither end point is struck by a >>> meteor then the backhaul is up. >>> >>> When you install thousands of individual customers and compare the >>> number of trouble calls and truck rolls, then I do think it's a different >>> animal. >>> >>> I'm not trashing wireless. I've been in the ISP business for 20 years, >>> and 15 of them were in wireless. My life is built around it. I'm just >>> telling you what the future looks like to me. >>> >>> -Adam >>> >>> On 9/6/2019 4:25 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> >>> I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most >>> everything in Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try to >>> drill. >>> >>> And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave, >>> right now in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all over >>> the place, fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our microwave >>> wireless networks are still trucking there and they haven’t missed a beat >>> through the entire storm. >>> >>> On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>> I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw >>> last week. Not cheap. >>> >>> *From:* Adam Moffett >>> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM >>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber >>> >>> How about a 6' diameter rock saw? >>> There's a tool for every job right? >>> >>> On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> >>> I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania. >>> Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there. >>> >>> *From:* Mike Hammett >>> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber >>> >>> Assumingly at considerably more expense. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber >>> >>> I do rock all day long. Even solid rock at times. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Matt Hoppes >>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber >>> >>> Rock. >>> >>> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com >>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> > >>> > Why? >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes >>> > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM >>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners >>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber >>> > >>> > And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is >>> > astronomical -- if not impossible. >>> > >>> >> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: >>> >> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and >>> the >>> >> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very >>> small. >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes >>> >> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net >>> >> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> That's what everyone keeps saying.... but my fiber provider sends >>> me >>> >> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees >>> >> taking >>> >> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc. >>> >> >>> >> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >>> >> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't >>> >> break that >>> >> > often. >>> >> > -Adam >>> >> > >>> >> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> >> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets >>> broken. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: >>> >> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be >>> relying on >>> >> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC. Your >>> >> capex >>> >> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself >>> >> with >>> >> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get >>> >> paid >>> >> >>> for 50 years. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> -Adam >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> >> >>>> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty >>> much >>> >> >>>> sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 >>> or >>> >> 3 >>> >> >>>> man team? We’d be run ragged. How do you stay sain? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a >>> >> tree >>> >> >>>> down which took another tree down which took another tree >>> down >>> >> which >>> >> >>>> snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the >>> >> >>>> powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home >>> and >>> >> >>>> found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the >>> fiber >>> >> >>>> damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like >>> >> yeah it’s >>> >> >>>> like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where >>> the >>> >> >>>> fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and >>> >> started work. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 >>> >> guys >>> >> >>>> and five trucks. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both >>> >> >>>> companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is >>> not >>> >> working. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a >>> mountain >>> >> and >>> >> >>>> not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and >>> >> haven’t >>> >> >>>> fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly >>> >> 7hrs to >>> >> >>>> even access the local due to power lines down. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> -- AF mailing list >>> >> AF@af.afmug.com mailto:AF@af.afmug.com >>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > AF mailing list >>> > AF@af.afmug.com >>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> > >>> > -- >>> > AF mailing list >>> > AF@af.afmug.com >>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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