Same deal as Paul. Our insurance covers climbing for ourselves but not for others. If we're working a job for someone else, we sub out the guys on the tower and it can get expensive.
> On Jul 4, 2018, at 1:20 PM, [email protected] > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Chuck, also look into your insurance costs. After being canceled two years in > a row for doing tower and rooftop work, > we found a company to cover us "affordably" but limits that we can't climb > for others, limits the number of hours we > can do tower work in-house, etc. > > If you plan on these guys being a tower crew 100% of the time and sub'ing > them out to others, your insurance > rates my change your cost/benefit analysis. > >> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 1:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> That is almost a perfect example of this job I need done. I don’t begrudge >> a couple of guys making $1K for a day of driving and a half day of working. >> Seems like decent money to me. Even at $75/hour, a 16 hour day comes in at >> $1200 per person. Not unreasonable. I can supply an employee or two for >> pulling on ropes etc. But 4-10 times that amount are the range of the >> quotes I am getting. >> >> Just trying to calibrate my expectations. I recently paid about $5K for a >> 100’ SSV to be erected. (I paid for the crane work and we built the >> foundations in house). >> >> Now the same guy wants the same amount to hang a PTP 550 on it and another >> tower. That is where the heartburn is kicking in. I too have erected >> towers. I know that it is a bit more work than just hanging a small >> integrated radio. >> >> From: Jaime Solorza >> Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 10:57 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >> >> I understand as an employer you have to look at cost vs benefit....but tower >> climbing is to me different from other Telecom work. I really don't climb >> much anymore and out of the flow as to what folks are charging now. Did a >> job in Midland with son realigning two 11GHz links on water tanks....left El >> Paso at 4 am, drove almost 4 hours...worked 6...drove home....I made 800.00 >> , son 600.00. Plus Travel and per diem ...some other outfit wanted to >> charge them 3000.00. They hired us again few months later to install new >> radio after one got sent to heaven by lightning.. but Midland pays well. >> Just don't like it much..no mountains... >> >> Jaime Solorza >> >>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, 10:38 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I realize that but it is not low for a run-of-the- mill telecom tech around >>> here >>> We start them at about $15 and after a few years they will top out around >>> $25 if they are still doing install and repair work. >>> >>> I am trying to illustrate the job costing that I am applying to this >>> particular job to judge whether or not these quotes are reasonable. >>> >>> If 4 man is the law, and if it takes twice the amount of time I am guessing >>> (which happens all too frequently) and if they have to drive a half a day >>> and stay overnight, then I can see it. But my heart says that 4 men is >>> overkill and it should not take that much time etc. >>> >>> I am totally double minded on this because I quit doing lowball bids years >>> ago. If I don’t make good money on a job I pass it over. >>> >>> “for the labourer is worthy of his hire” >>> >>> From: Jaime Solorza >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 10:29 AM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >>> >>> 25 an hour is low for tower work >>> >>> Jaime Solorza >>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, 10:13 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Let’s say I pay a guy that I have sent to Comtrain $25/hour. >>>> I pay a few benefits, modest health insurance etc. >>>> To not lose money, I have to bill one of my other companies $39.50. >>>> >>>> I have a very comprehensive spreadsheet that calculates every jot and >>>> tittle for loaded rates. >>>> It even includes the expense of calculating the billing etc. >>>> >>>> If anyone wants a copy send me an off list request. I don’t think I can >>>> attach spreadsheets to the email. >>>> >>>> So, lets round up. $40/hour is my out of pocket. >>>> Say I need two of these guys to hang the radios. $80/hour. >>>> >>>> I know I can climb that tower, hang the radio, secure the CAT5 and be on >>>> the ground in 2 hours. >>>> Have done similar jobs many many times as a younger man. >>>> >>>> Then drive for a half hour (let’s round up to 1 hours) and then do the >>>> same at the other site. 5 hours total so far. >>>> Then say we have to go back to the first site and tweak the aiming. 6 >>>> hours into the job. >>>> >>>> 6 x 80 is $480 My out of pocket payroll expense to hang a pair of $600 >>>> radios. >>>> Perhaps there is some OSHA rule that requires 4 guys. I don’t know about >>>> this rule.... but two people have mentioned it now. >>>> OK, my expense is not $1200. >>>> >>>> Let’s say I want send my guys to do this job for someone else and make a >>>> 50% margin, then I would be billing $2400. >>>> And pocketing half. >>>> >>>> Still far less than the quotes and estimates I have received. >>>> I realize everyone has to drive in from somewhere and they have to be paid >>>> while they drive. But still... >>>> Where is that rule that you must have 4 guys on a tower crew? >>>> What is a fair margin when renting our your employees to others. >>>> What is the cost of sending someone to Comtrain these days? >>>> >>>> From: Chuck McCown >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 11:15 PM >>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >>>> >>>> I figure less than 3 hours per tower, in reality it should be one hour per >>>> tower. So 6 man hours. Of course there would be transport time to and >>>> from. But if my own employees were doing it I would have less than $240 >>>> in payroll expense. >>>> >>>> From: Jaime Solorza >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2018 9:34 PM >>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >>>> >>>> Too busy to help you...but 4500.00 is more or less what son and I would >>>> charge... >>>> >>>> Jaime Solorza >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 1:28 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> From: Trey Scarborough >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 1:15 PM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >>>>> >>>>> Check with LRC >>>>> >>>>> https://www.lrcwireless.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 7/2/2018 8:31 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>>> Near Innis Louisiana. >>>>>> (NW of Baton Rouge, SE or Alexandria). >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Colin Stanners >>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2018 7:27 PM >>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >>>>>> >>>>>> $5000 and they don't even need to mount big dishes or take out the >>>>>> rubber tape? Incredible.... sounds like it's their "we don't want your >>>>>> business, go away" pricing. Maybe post the area and see if any AFMUG >>>>>> members are around? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:23 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> Integrated radios/antenna. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Colin Stanners >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2018 7:16 PM >>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower climbing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How big are the dishes? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those seem really high compared to around here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:12 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> I have a pair of PTP550s to hang and wire. >>>>>>>> Long away from my base of operations. About 100’ up on both ends. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have received two quotes to hang and aim: >>>>>>>> $5000 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> $8000 ($14,000 if it goes to 2 days) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not sure why they think this needs 4 guys to do. >>>>>>>> I am too old to do it myself, just don’t have the leg >>>>>>>> strength/endurance to be safe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 10x the cost of the radios to hang and aim??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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