Well, technically speaking, SELECTIVE and MODE=ABSOLUTE are not identical:
- SELECTIVE backup backs up everything that is not excluded via EXCLUDE
(INCLUDE/EXCLUDE processing is *always* honored). On the other hand, if
you use multiple management classes and not all of them have
MODE=ABSOLUTE, then only those files that are bound to the management
class with MODE=ABSOLUTE will be backed up if they haven't changed. For
example, if I have two management classes, MGMTA with MODE=MODIFIED and
MGMTB with MODE=ABSOLUTE, and I have something like this:
include *:\...\* MGMTA
include c:\mydir\...\* MGMTB
Then if I run an incremnetal backup, the MODE=ABSOLUTE will only apply to
the files in C:\MYDIR. On the other hand, a SELECTIVE backup of C:\ with
-SUBDIR=YES will back up all files regardless of whether they have changed
(except files that are excluded).
- When using MODE=ABSOLUTE, the client will not attempt to back up files
that are excluded. When using SELECTIVE, TSM will try to back up
everything in the file specification, including files that are excluded
These files will get a message saying that they are skipped because they
are excluded. This is arguably the only real virtue of using MODE=ABSOLUTE
vs. SELECTIVE backup: the former doesn't generate the "file skipped due to
exclude" message, while the latter does. But as long as it is understood
why the "file skipped" messages appear, this is a minor nit.
So no, the internal processing is not *identical*, but for all practical
intents and purposes, you can make them behave similarly.
If the user wants to back up his entire machine with local drives C:, E:,
and F:, then the following command will work:
dsmc s c:\ e:\ f:\ -subdir=yes
This will back up all files, except those that are excluded.
If you set all management classes so that MODE=ABSOLUTE, then the
following command:
dsmc i c: e: f:
will also back up all files, except those that are excluded.
If you prefer the SELECTIVE method, then for users who want weekly full
backups and daily incremental backups (the traditional "full +
incremental" approach), you could create a schedule with
ACTION=SELECTIVE
OBJECTS="C:\ E:\ F:\"
OPTIONS="-SUBDIR=YES"
that runs only once a week, say, on Saturday. If you have another schedule
that runs incrmental backups Monday - Friday, then you can associate users
to both schedules, and the full + incremental backups are fully automated.
Regards,
Andy
Andy Raibeck
IBM Software Group
Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development
Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS
Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
The command line is your friend.
"Good enough" is the enemy of excellence.
"Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/19/2001 17:21
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: Re: Future Share Requirement: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client
ba cks
up files that are unmodified
I tried to find the statement where a selective was not the same as an
incremental absolute but could not find it (thought I saw something like
that). So it looks like the mechanism is to setup for modified and when
you
need a full backup use a selective specifying the entire client file
system.
I think you make the most important distinction here between a backup
utility and a storage management product. TSM is used to manage storage
and
its recovery during a failure. A backup utility is used to perform
backups
and hope you can get restores. That is why I joke about a competitive
product being ???backup, gross no restore (a little play with words).
So, I think we are at the documentation needs to be fixed.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Future Share Requirement: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client
backs up files that are unmodified
As a former customer and MVS storage administrator myself, I certainly
wouldn't want my users modifying SMS policies, either directly or
indirectly. In the same fashion, I wouldn't want them modifying my TSM
policies. Allowing users to specify -mode=absolute from the client is
effectively doing just that. Also, if we were to allow users to modify the
MODE setting, then the precedent would be set: next, users will want to be
able to modify VEREXISTS, VERDELETED, RETEXTRA, FREQUENCY, etc. Then the
whole concept of policy-based storage management goes out the window.
Even if you don't want to modify your TSM policy settings, I still don't
see what functionality a "-mode=absolute" option would give you that you
don't already have today via the SELECTIVE command. But yes, if this is
still something you require, then the requirements route is the best way
to go.
Regards,
Andy
Andy Raibeck
IBM Software Group
Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development
Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS
Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
The command line is your friend.
"Good enough" is the enemy of excellence.
"Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/18/2001 22:51
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: Future Share Requirement: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop
Archive
Client backs up
files that are unmodified
Thanks for the response.
I plan to submit a requirement Share to make this work. I will explain
why.
Coming from a mainframe background, we do not change configuration
parameters on the fly to direct software. We typically use command
overrides. So the requirement would be for the client node definition to
have a mode override authority (no or client) added to it and the
incremental command to allow a "-mode absolute" or "-mode modified" so
that
the customer can allow the client to override this parameter rather than
giving them authority to mess around with the entire management class or
more. The other option is to have a new mode setup in the management
class
"client" which requires the client to specify or defaults to modified.
Even if the documentation is correct and development decides to fix the
code, I now recommend they rethink and some kind of variation of the
above.
Otherwise, they could break something.
I will talk to the Product Manager about this one.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are
unmo dified
Hi Paul,
Thanks for letting me know about the doc. You are correct, we probably
will just correct the documentation, unless the way it is currently
working is truly wrong (which I doubt). The Admin Guide probably needs a
statement about checking the MODE, and that last statement you quoted in
the Admin Reference should probably refer to FREQUENCY, not MODE.
Partial incremental is intended solely as a performance enhancement over
full incremental, and works by using a less stringent set of criteria for
determining whether a file has changed. Since the MODE setting doesn't
actually have anything to do with determining whether a file has changed,
it doesn't really make sense to ignore it for an incremental -- be it
partial or full -- backup operation.
I can understand that someone might want to implement a full (meaning back
up all files) + incremental backup strategy, but making the distinction in
partial incremental vs. full incremental isn't the best or most meaningful
way to do this.
A full + incremental strategy can be implemented by changing the MODE
setting in the copy group. For example, set MODE to MODIFIED for
week-night backups, change it to ABSOLUTE for Saturday night backups, then
change it back to MODIFIED again, until the next Saturday. You could
create an admin schedule to automate this. Alternatively, a user could
"force" a full backup by running a SELECTIVE backup on all their file
systems,
Regards,
Andy
Andy Raibeck
IBM Software Group
Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development
Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS
Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
The command line is your friend.
"Good enough" is the enemy of excellence.
"Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/17/2001 10:28
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up
files
that are unmo dified
This is from page 248 in the 4.2.1 AIX Administrator's Guide.
Partial Incremental Backup
When a user requests a partial incremental backup, TSM performs the
following steps to
determine eligibility:
1. Checks each file against the user's include-exclude list:
? Files that are excluded are not eligible for backup.
? If files are not excluded and a management class is specified with the
INCLUDE
option, TSM uses that management class.
? If files are not excluded but a management class is not specified with
the
INCLUDE
option, TSM uses the default management class.
? If no include-exclude list exists, all files in the client domain are
eligible for backup,
and TSM uses the default management class.
2. Checks the management class of each included file:
? If there is a backup copy group, the process continues with step 3.
? If there is no backup copy group, the file is not eligible for backup.
3. Checks the date and time of the last incremental backup by the client,
and the
serialization requirement defined in the backup copy group. (Serialization
specifies how
files are handled if they are modified while being backed up and what
happens if
modification occurs.)
? If the file has not changed since the last incremental backup, the file
is
not backed
up.
? If the file has changed since the last incremental backup and the
serialization
requirement is met, the file is backed up.
This is from page 105 of the AIX Administrator's Reference
MODE
Specifies whether TSM backs up a file only if the file has changed since
the
last backup,
or whenever a client requests a backup. This parameter is optional. The
default value is
MODIFIED. Possible values are:
MODified
Specifies that TSM backs up the file only if it has changed since the last
backup.
TSM considers a file changed if any of the following is true:
? The date last modified is different
? The file size is different
? The file owner is different
? The file permissions are different
ABSolute
Specifies that TSM backs up the file regardless of whether it has been
modified.
The MODE value is used only for full incremental backup. This value is
ignored during
partial incremental backup or selective backup.
The last sentence here and what the Administrator's guide lead you to
believe that mode has no play on a partial incremental.
I can see where this is going. Tivoli will correct the documentation.
Actually this would be a nice feature. The reason is that it makes the
product work like competitive products if the customer wants to operate
that
way. Fulls + incrementals. From a marketing perspective it would give
customers a way to transition to TSM using their old philosophy and
migrate
slowly into the TSM model. There are clients that really need this type
of
backup philosophy to make the users comfortable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 12:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are
unmo dified
I know that the doc says that the FREQUENCY copygroup setting is ignored.
This would have to be the case since FREQUENCY requires knowing when the
file was last backed up. Since partial incremental doesn't query the
server for information on existing backups, it can't know when the file
was last backed up; thus FREQUENCY is ignored.
If you can let me know which manual you are looking at, and where exactly
in the manual you are looking, we can pursue further.
Regards,
Andy
Andy Raibeck
IBM Software Group
Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development
Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS
Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
The command line is your friend.
"Good enough" is the enemy of excellence.
"Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/16/2001 18:54
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up
files
that are unmo dified
OK, I buy what you are saying. However, the documentation says this is
ignored if it is a partial backup. What does "ignored" mean. My question
was why when I do -incrbydate it also backs up everything. The
documentation seems to indicate that absolute would be ignored.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are
unmodifi ed
> I have absolute turned on.
If you mean that you have MODE=ABSOLUTE in the copy group, then you just
answered your own question answer! :-) That's exactly what
ABSOLUTE says: back up the file even if it hasn't changed.
Regards,
Andy
Andy Raibeck
IBM Software Group
Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development
Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS
Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
The command line is your friend.
"Good enough" is the enemy of excellence.
"Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11/16/2001 01:07
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files
that
are unmodifi ed
I cannot seem to figure this out. I am doing a simple dsmc incr.
I run the backup and every time it backs up all files that are in my
dsm.opt
includes as if it is a selective backup.
If I use -incrbydate, same thing.
I have absolute turned on.
Any ideas?
AIX 4.2.1.2 Server
Desktop BA Client 4.2.1
Paul D. Seay, Jr.
Technical Specialist
Naptheon Inc.
757-688-8180
