Seay, is -selective backup not doing exactly what you want to achieve with mode=absolute ?
best regards Juraj Salak -----Original Message----- From: Seay, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 6:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Future Share Requirement: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmodified Thanks for the response. I plan to submit a requirement Share to make this work. I will explain why. Coming from a mainframe background, we do not change configuration parameters on the fly to direct software. We typically use command overrides. So the requirement would be for the client node definition to have a mode override authority (no or client) added to it and the incremental command to allow a "-mode absolute" or "-mode modified" so that the customer can allow the client to override this parameter rather than giving them authority to mess around with the entire management class or more. The other option is to have a new mode setup in the management class "client" which requires the client to specify or defaults to modified. Even if the documentation is correct and development decides to fix the code, I now recommend they rethink and some kind of variation of the above. Otherwise, they could break something. I will talk to the Product Manager about this one. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmo dified Hi Paul, Thanks for letting me know about the doc. You are correct, we probably will just correct the documentation, unless the way it is currently working is truly wrong (which I doubt). The Admin Guide probably needs a statement about checking the MODE, and that last statement you quoted in the Admin Reference should probably refer to FREQUENCY, not MODE. Partial incremental is intended solely as a performance enhancement over full incremental, and works by using a less stringent set of criteria for determining whether a file has changed. Since the MODE setting doesn't actually have anything to do with determining whether a file has changed, it doesn't really make sense to ignore it for an incremental -- be it partial or full -- backup operation. I can understand that someone might want to implement a full (meaning back up all files) + incremental backup strategy, but making the distinction in partial incremental vs. full incremental isn't the best or most meaningful way to do this. A full + incremental strategy can be implemented by changing the MODE setting in the copy group. For example, set MODE to MODIFIED for week-night backups, change it to ABSOLUTE for Saturday night backups, then change it back to MODIFIED again, until the next Saturday. You could create an admin schedule to automate this. Alternatively, a user could "force" a full backup by running a SELECTIVE backup on all their file systems, Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. "Good enough" is the enemy of excellence. "Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/17/2001 10:28 Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmo dified This is from page 248 in the 4.2.1 AIX Administrator's Guide. Partial Incremental Backup When a user requests a partial incremental backup, TSM performs the following steps to determine eligibility: 1. Checks each file against the user's include-exclude list: ? Files that are excluded are not eligible for backup. ? If files are not excluded and a management class is specified with the INCLUDE option, TSM uses that management class. ? If files are not excluded but a management class is not specified with the INCLUDE option, TSM uses the default management class. ? If no include-exclude list exists, all files in the client domain are eligible for backup, and TSM uses the default management class. 2. Checks the management class of each included file: ? If there is a backup copy group, the process continues with step 3. ? If there is no backup copy group, the file is not eligible for backup. 3. Checks the date and time of the last incremental backup by the client, and the serialization requirement defined in the backup copy group. (Serialization specifies how files are handled if they are modified while being backed up and what happens if modification occurs.) ? If the file has not changed since the last incremental backup, the file is not backed up. ? If the file has changed since the last incremental backup and the serialization requirement is met, the file is backed up. This is from page 105 of the AIX Administrator's Reference MODE Specifies whether TSM backs up a file only if the file has changed since the last backup, or whenever a client requests a backup. This parameter is optional. The default value is MODIFIED. Possible values are: MODified Specifies that TSM backs up the file only if it has changed since the last backup. TSM considers a file changed if any of the following is true: ? The date last modified is different ? The file size is different ? The file owner is different ? The file permissions are different ABSolute Specifies that TSM backs up the file regardless of whether it has been modified. The MODE value is used only for full incremental backup. This value is ignored during partial incremental backup or selective backup. The last sentence here and what the Administrator's guide lead you to believe that mode has no play on a partial incremental. I can see where this is going. Tivoli will correct the documentation. Actually this would be a nice feature. The reason is that it makes the product work like competitive products if the customer wants to operate that way. Fulls + incrementals. From a marketing perspective it would give customers a way to transition to TSM using their old philosophy and migrate slowly into the TSM model. There are clients that really need this type of backup philosophy to make the users comfortable. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 12:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmo dified I know that the doc says that the FREQUENCY copygroup setting is ignored. This would have to be the case since FREQUENCY requires knowing when the file was last backed up. Since partial incremental doesn't query the server for information on existing backups, it can't know when the file was last backed up; thus FREQUENCY is ignored. If you can let me know which manual you are looking at, and where exactly in the manual you are looking, we can pursue further. Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. "Good enough" is the enemy of excellence. "Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/16/2001 18:54 Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmo dified OK, I buy what you are saying. However, the documentation says this is ignored if it is a partial backup. What does "ignored" mean. My question was why when I do -incrbydate it also backs up everything. The documentation seems to indicate that absolute would be ignored. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Raibeck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmodifi ed > I have absolute turned on. If you mean that you have MODE=ABSOLUTE in the copy group, then you just answered your own question answer! :-) That's exactly what ABSOLUTE says: back up the file even if it hasn't changed. Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Development Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS Internet e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. "Good enough" is the enemy of excellence. "Seay, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/16/2001 01:07 Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: W2K 4.2.1 Desktop Archive Client backs up files that are unmodifi ed I cannot seem to figure this out. I am doing a simple dsmc incr. I run the backup and every time it backs up all files that are in my dsm.opt includes as if it is a selective backup. If I use -incrbydate, same thing. I have absolute turned on. Any ideas? AIX 4.2.1.2 Server Desktop BA Client 4.2.1 Paul D. Seay, Jr. Technical Specialist Naptheon Inc. 757-688-8180
