too long for me to read, could you summarize in 3 lines? On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Corey <co...@bitworthy.net> wrote: > > The following is not a troll. (the subject is for the sake of humor only) > > On Friday 16 April 2010 11:10:28 Patrick Kelly wrote: >> Have you look at what Plan 9 has done? I would hardly go to say we are >> reactive. Every other system has reacted to what Plan 9 has done, not the >> other way around. >> > > However, "what Plan 9 has done"... occurred many years ago. > > But what has it done _lately_? (that's an honest question, not a > troll) > > In the mean time, that horrible, over-complex, fugly bloated mess that - > according to 9fans apparently - represents the vast majority of software > (and developers) in the world... is in fact... _hugely_ prolific, and under > constant development and experimentation: generating untold riches in > wealth in a great number of industries and constantly increasing user and > developer productivity via a rich plethora of options in programming > languages, conceptual models, applications, and higher-level abstractions. > Messy, with high levels of noise-to-signal - certainly... but absolutely, > astoundingly productive and in constant motion. > > While the radically simple, perfectly sound Plan 9 continues to focus > primarily at being an IDE and file server... for C programmers... of an > obscure/alien dialect... because POSIX sucks, and UNIX sucks, and all > Standards suck, and all other languages besides C (and rc) suck, and OOP > sucks, and amateurs suck, and higher level abstractions suck, and gui buttons > and widgets suck, and keyboard shortcuts suck, and the web sucks, and larger > scale community-driven collaboration sucks... etc. etc. ad infinitum. Clean, > certainly... but in near/relative stasis as well. > > When "less is more" degenerates into "nothing is better than something" > (and "get out of my yard!")... indicates (to me) that the community involved > could possibly bring in some outside air. (I'm referring to the abstract > community - not each individual, who I'm sure all get plenty of fresh air). > It would be great if 9fans wasn't simply a place where people congregate > partially as means to get their grognard on in full effect mode - or > alternately, if there was a place for 9fans where they could speculate > productively on greenfield ideas regarding experimental new directions that > alternative Plan 9 _based_ operating systems might be well suited towards. > > But here on 9fans, even the basic process of community meta-cognition ends > in that all too familiar "flame drizzle". > > To be honest, it's a shame that Plan 9 appears, for whatever reasons, to > be firmly entrenched within the context of a particular school of C systems > programming. It seems clear that Plan 9's core model has got a > helluvalot more to offer than rio + acme + kencc and friends... but if Glenda > doesn't get the chance to produce further offspring, that theory will never be > fully realized. > > So as to not merely "complain", I'll venture some obvious ideas: > > Perhaps a new mailing list - to act as a lightening rod for "non-canon" Plan 9 > ideas, discussion and projects. > > Perhaps a linguistic convention to help mitigate the dichotomy (and perpetual > conflict) that occurs between two camps of thought regarding the official > standard Plan 9 distribution. The conflict seems to arise due to differring > ideas of just what 'Plan 9' is... there appears to be an unnecessary friction > between keeping Plan 9 mostly as it _is_, and making Plan 9 something > _different_ than it currently is. > > In other words, there's a battle between "Plan 9 same" and "Plan 9 different" > - as though There Can Only Be One. But if "Plan 9 different" was called, say, > Plan X instead of Plan 9... then perhaps the "Plan 9 same" folks wouldn't feel > that Plan 9 proper was in constant jeopardy of becoming polluted/diluted. > > The Plan 9ers have "successfully" prevented the Plan Xers from "encroaching", > but it's the Plan Xers who are going to find new and interesting expressions > of a Plan 9 based operating system, however in order to bootstrap, the Plan > Xers need the experience and insights of the Plan 9ers... yet there's an > antagonistic conundrum that prevents the two perspectives from peering. > > Is any of this even worth discussing? Or is this just another example of > "talk, talk, talk" from yet another troll who has no intention of actually > doing something productive? > > > Kind regards > >
-- Federico G. Benavento
