> - We need to avoid customers thinking "Veritas can shrink, ZFS can't". That
>   is wrong. ZFS _filesystems_ grow and shrink all the time, it's just the
>   pools below them that can just grow. And Veritas does not even have pools.

I'm sure that this issue is different for different environments, but I
assure you it wasn't raised because we're looking at a spec chart and
someone saw a missing check in the ZFS column.  The ability to
deallocate in-use storage without having to migrate the existing data is
used today by many administrators.  We'll live with this not being
possible in ZFS at the moment, but the limitation is real and the
flexibility of filesystems within the pool doesn't alleviate it.

> Sorry if I'm stating the obvious or stuff that has been discussed before,
> but the more I think about zpool remove, the more I think it's a question
> of willingness to plan/work/script/provision vs. a real show stopper.

Show stopper would depend on the environment.  It's certainly not that
in many places.  I agree that if I could exactly plan all my storage
perfectly in advance, then several ways that it would be really useful
would be reduced.  However one of the reasons to have it is precisely
because it is so difficult to get good predictions for storage use.

I know just a touch of the internals of ZFS to understand why
remove/split/evacuate is much more difficult than it might be in simpler
volume managers.  I'm happy we've got what we have today and that people
have already thought up ways of attacking this problem to make ZFS even
better.
-- 
Darren Dunham                                           [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Technical Consultant         TAOS            http://www.taos.com/
Got some Dr Pepper?                           San Francisco, CA bay area
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