Hello Joao,
Thanks for sharing this very interesting story. For the most part, I do
agree to the points you mentioned about casual computer users not caring
enough about the installation details and just wanting things to work
out of the box. I do feel that the Linux world is slowly marching to
that point. For example, if you install Xubuntu on a supported hardware
now a days, everything gets configured out of the box and after the
installation, it's ready for your use. That's it. No need to install any
driver or any video playing application or an office suite or a pdf
reading software. But using a Linux compatible hardware is important
that most of us forget or just take for granted.
Also, I hope you know that you can use this mailing list as a medium for
getting help if you're stuck somewhere with Xubuntu and Linux in general.
Regards,
Subhadip
On Sunday 14 May 2017 07:29 AM, Joao Monteiro wrote:
Hi again folks,
Thank you for your replies and understanding, appreciated.
Not sure this will be the right place for this reply, but it is on
topic (of gratefulness and history on how I got here). So please feel
free to move it to wherever it may be appropriate and let me know so
that I don’t pester anybody unecessarily again lol…
Peter, I had my first contact with Linux actually over 15 years ago,
but only in the last 3 did I start to probe into it on a regular basis
and fidling with it more seriously. (BTW, I'm Ccing you here as well
to se if I do it right)
My very first runs were with Red Hat Linux and then Suse Linux after
that. Bought the Red Hat Bible book in my local bookstore and used the
installation disk it brought. The very first thing that was instantly
noticeable was that I would require an awful lot of in-depth computing
knowledge to get it all right – loads of command line tuning for it
all to work fairly well.
Same with Suse Linux; bought a box set of 5 CD’s and acompanying
manual. Same problems as with Red Hat.
I am from the days of ZX Spectrum connected to the tele and a tape
recorder to load the programs and then moved onto PC with DOS. No
windows then, just the command prompt, so had a good experience using
it. But Linux is Unix like and Unix has by far an awful lot more of
commands, different syntax, structure, etc.
So, about 3 years ago I started to seriously delve into Linux, as I
got an Asus eeepc 1000H off a colleague at work for peanuts. It paid off.
Tried Debian, Red Hat again, Suse, Fedora and finally Ubuntu. All
versions of linux after Ubuntu have all been Ubuntu derivatives in one
way or another. Last year, after much reading, tried Mint and then
Mate. Have to say that Mate was indeed the one that prevented me from
finally giving up. It worked very well on the eeepc but still with
glitches here and there – the main one was a constant pop up
notification saying that something had stopped working and when I
looke into it it was the Marco (desktop wallpaper background?).
Nothing major, in all honesty, but somehow it still didn’t feel quite
right. Funny thing is, I can’t really say what or why it didn’t feel
quite right. Perhaps it was the ongoing arguing between some involved
in its development/upkeeping about technicalities, like placing this
or that in this menu or that, or using unity or not, I don’t now…
something didn’t feel quite right for me. But it definitely gave me
hope and encouraged me to not give up. For that I will always keep it
at hand with gratitude.
A few weeks ago, whilst trying to find some answers for some drivers
issues for it, I kept coming across references to xubuntu and to the
xfce desktop. So, digged into xubuntu info and found the 32 and 64 bit
ISOs for a bootable USB stick. Gave it a try and the rest is history.
It was like it had been written for the eeepc. Everything worked
straight away without a single glitch. Mind you, Mate did work
exceedingly well as well, but sometimes it would hang up if I had more
than 3 applications open or if I tried to copy files with one
application while another one was downloading something at the same
time… stuff like that. And I didn’t know of any means to kill the
hanging application(s) or doing a soft reset, so had to end up pushing
the power button for a hard reset.
With xubuntu xfce dsktop I even have a “Ctrl+Alt+Backspace” option for
an emergency soft reset if need be, which I implemented by following
the “10 things to do after installing xubuntu xfce”.
Just today, prior to making my first post here, my screen started to
display flickering running lines while I was playing some songs and
typing a spreadsheet; went online, searched for flickering screen in
xubuntu xfce, found a cristal clear instruction to use the command
line to open, edit and save a file with launchpad, reboot the machine
and voila… flickering’s gone.
I think that the crux of the matter to me boils down to the same that
probably affects the majority of Windows users: help. OK, seasoned
Linuxers may rightfully argue – as I have seen – that we (Windows
victims) are lazy and want everything served ready made. But they need
to understand that it is not as much laziness per se, as it is a
consequence of Windows habbit and an extremely fast paced, hectic
working life these days – at least here in London, UK.
To Caeser what is of Caeser: Linus Torvalds gave the world the
undeniable marvel that it is Linux. But Bill Gates, for all his
faults, gave the world what the common citizen needs to USE a
computer… a cursor on a GUI and a mouse to point and click to make
things work.
This is what Linuxers need to understand… the common user doesn’t have
any computing experience and rarely knows the difference between a
bite and a baud. We want to switch on the machine, throw a cd or dvd
into the drive, and then point and click on Yes, No, Maybe, Later, to
install the operating system. Then we want to read on the screen
“Done, reboot your computer” and once we reboot it, we want to point
and click to start using it.
Windows doesn’t give users any computing knowledge; it gives them
programs that users can use by just clicking on icons or words on a GUI.
Linux on the other hand gives users the same but educates them in
computing by necessity along the way. As it should be, imho… I like it.
But where often Linux falls short is in overlooking the fact that due
to the Windows convenience, most users don’t understand the technical
explanations required sometimes.
Giving users an automatic point and click installation program for a
Linux version, that does all the behind the scenes operations rquired
for the OS to work, like Windows does, IS crucial and fudamental for a
Windows user to start making the transition onto Linux, and no amount
of arguing from anybody can change this truism.
Next is the help. With most of other Linux flavours I often had
incompatibilities of some sort that needed adjustments. And they all
required the use of the command line in one way or another, to edit
files, change their contents here or there, save them and rebooting.
All nice and well, but the instructions on how to do it were for the
most part either confusing, or not clear enough or sometimes downright
ineffective because the steps in which they must be done were not
presented in a correct order and I had to either figure it out by
myself via trial and error or simply give up on it altogether as it
happened on one occasion to try to get the wifi working with Red Hat
or to get the correct drivers for my radeon graphics card on this
Samsung R20, with another version that I can’t even remember anymore
as I gave up on it.
Look… if you try to explain to any Windows user that they can have the
KDE, Gnome, Xfce or whichever other desktop with whichever version of
linux, 99 out of 100 of them will think you are referring to the
wallpaper… tell them about an X-window server and they will probably
think you are talking about some Windows server system that they don’t
want to know about because they don’t know anything about servers,
they just work with their Windows 7 or 10 or whatever. Anedoctal or
tragic alike, this is real and factual, for the better or the worst.
So… having a good Help documentation that allows any user to install a
version of Linux in a “Linux for Dummies” or “Idiots Guide to Linux”
style , with step by step instructions, IS crucial to help Windows
users transition to Linux. Not a matter of laziness on Windows users,
my friends… just a matter of computing ignorance on our part, as a
direct consequence of the way that Microsoft fed us for decades with
its ready-to-eat-windows-meal.
As I said before, I’m not a computer geek, but I’m no stranger to the
command line, I actually prefer it for some tasks (much quicker and
efficient than via the graphical applications) and I’m not afraid or
shy of trying, experimenting and studying until I understand what’s
what and why. But for that, I too need understandable, coherent, clear
explanations. And let’s face it, most of the seasoned linux users
forget that Linux newbies don’t have how to understand half of their
instructions because they don’t have the knowledge or understanding of
what those instructions mean or relate to.
With Xubuntu xfce I have found not only more information to help me
get things sorted and fixed, but I have found that information to be
better structured and more careful in its step-by-step instructions.
That said, justice be made to Mate, it is excellent as well.
Downloaded the ISO file, burnt it to a USB stick, installed it on the
laptop without a single glitch. Then followed the suggestions and
recommendations of things to do pos-install to fine tune it and
improve its performance as well as its safety and again it all worked
without a glitch. Because the instructions are clear, concise and come
with an explanation of what does what and why, so that hen one step
didn’t work, I understood that I had to try the alternative step and why.
It took me pains to understand that the reason that Ubuntu worked so
erratically and sluggishly in this 2Gb RAM 64 bit machine was the low
memory. Thank goodness I stumbled upon Xubuntu Xfce, because otherwise
I would have spent a bit of money that right now wouldn’t be easy on
extra memory for this machine. Xubuntu help clearly explains what to
do to help with low memory. And guess what… it works, he he he.
What can I say… seasoned linuxers can beat me to death with jokes and
whatever they wish, because I’m a confessed ignorant giving my first
steps in this new (to me) environment, but after long and exhaustive
(and exhausting lol) trials and errors and experimentation and
desperation, Xubuntu Xfce feels like the unexpected reward for my
preseverance in not giving up on trying to learn linux.
I understand it, I can work with it, I feel at ease, comfortable and
very happy with it (which I wasn’t with Windows, so that itself is
saying something) and above all else, it works consistently and
reliably (so far as I am finding) in 3 very different machines with
very different hardware and resources each one. Unless you folks let
it die away, my search is over, because now I have a long road ahead
of me to learn linux at my own pace, with this xubuntu xfce as my
steady foundation.
Please don’t shoot me (too hard anyway lol) for this long babbling,
make an effort to understand my joy for this linux pearl and once
again thank you so so so much for your work and efforts, this is a
fantastic OS and thanks to it I can educate myself further in the
linux – and computing – world.
Kindest regards to all
Joa
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