Hi!
Le 28/09/2010 7:42, Michiel Kamermans a écrit :
On 9/27/2010 8:53 PM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
You know, because Windows has the most consistent user
interface an OS
ever had.
(From some one who is yet to see two "native" Windows
applications that
behave the same)
Yeah, yeah, look, my name isn't "Gates", but in windows the
idea is, and virtually every applicaiton sticks to this, "if
there's multiple windows, you get them INSIDE a master
frame". I'm not going to argue that every single app
developer went "yes windows design style guide, I will
unquestioningly do what you say" but the vast majority of
important applications obeys this simple unwritten rule.
I never said TeXWork was a bad program - it's great. But i
annoys the hell out of me that it launches two applications
when it says it's one. You close the right application, the
left application doesn't close. Wtf? I thought I was running
one program? So it's two applications... you close the left
applicaiton, the right one does close. Again, wtf? So it IS
one program? This is not good design for a windows
application. It doesn't matter that some other people write
good programs with bad UIs on windows, too. A worthwhile
program uses the visual semantics that come with the OS it's
made for. Stick both the windows side by side in a master
frame when the code detects it's being compiled for Windows,
make them visible and invisible via checkboxes in
view/window->source and view/window->final or something, and
presto, the entire gripe's gone. Now it's a cross platform
editor that respects the user expectation of the vast
majority of people who are going to be new to TeX.
Have you used Microsoft Office lately?
When you open a Word document and a second or create a
second, it creates a second separate windows!! At least by
default. (Could be an option to have only one main windows)
Nowadays, there are almost more programs creating several
windows than programs working in one main windows with
sub-windows.
Some people love TeXWork because it's a better alternative
to everything they tried before, but that's because *they've
tried everything else and didn't like it*. It's almost
impossible to miss that means you're hardly new at TeX, but
that you're a long time user who's sampled everything there
is to sample over an extensive period of time and settled on
TeXWorks because it lets you get the job done. That's great,
if TeXWorks is where you ended up, awesome, it's a really
good program, even on windows. It also breaks the idea of a
single application that people that are new to TeX, and use
windows, will be used to. When you're new to something, you
don't want a program that behaves completely different from
all the other big programs you use. You want to give someone
new to TeX a familiar base first, so they don't tune out
going "this is so radically different that I cannot get
comfortable with it". Then, once you're familiar enough with
it to realise that even a plain text editor on a command
prompt works just fine (even if it's more work), looking at
better editors that take away the UI familiarity is no
longer objectionable. It's basically common sense.
Familiarity + a little bit of new, then shift focus until
the new is familiar, then drop the original hook you needed
to convince people it was worth getting familiar with the new.
Under Windows I do not think there is a TeX program working
only with one window for editing and viewing.
Saying that viewing with Adobe Reader, from let say
notepad2, is not breaking the rule, is correct only because
there are really two programs, but for the new user to TeX
it is much more difficult than using TeXworks which manages
everything. You do not have to create or parameter builds
(in TeXnicCenter) or something else. (and having the system
close the first Reader window before (re-)compiling!!! like
it is now)
In a new edition of a French book to come out soon, they
recommend TeXmaker (and still perhaps TeXnicCenter) because
there are tools bars with button for the common (La)TeX
commands, this doesn't exist, intentionally, in TeXworks.
Alain
- Mike "Pomax" Kamermans
nihongoresources.com
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