I haven't worked on linux in at least 4 years, enough time for the entire world to change under me. :(
Edwin G. Castro Software Developer - Staff Electronic Banking Services Fiserv Office: 503-746-0643 Fax: 503-617-0291 www.fiserv.com Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > -----Original Message----- > From: Blair [mailto:os...@live.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:14 PM > To: 'General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.' > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > Although now-a-days on my Ubuntu box when I run the Update Manager, it > invokes a GUI SUDO (linux implementation of UAC?) after the packages > are downloaded right before they are applied, so it seems that the > workflow-interruption method is being copied by that distro at least. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Castro, Edwin G. (Hillsboro) [mailto:edwin.cas...@fiserv.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:02 PM > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > Just be clear, I don't like the UAC design either. I like the goals of > the design and what they are trying to accomplish but I think the way > they decided to implement it in the GUI is a little cumbersome. > > I come from a *nix background where you have to explicitly elevate > yourself to run administrative tasks. The elevation tools elevated > processes and you couldn't run your graphical "shell" elevated so any > GUI apps that needed admin rights had to be started from the command > line. That workflow was familiar to me and comfortable. But I am a bit > of an oddity... I work almost exclusively from the command line (my > current favorite is PowerShell) so much that I open explorer windows > from the PowerShell command line (when I need them). > > Edwin G. Castro > Software Developer - Staff > Electronic Banking Services > Fiserv > Office: 503-746-0643 > Fax: 503-617-0291 > www.fiserv.com > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:17 PM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > Yeah, I know. > > > > Somehow I managed to almost completely avoid Vista. And our previous > > installer was InstallShield 6.31. Now I'm up to my neck in MSI, WiX, > > and Windows 7. Some of this is just bruising from the learning > curve. > > > > Glad there is someone out there who can see past the bruising... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Castro, Edwin G. (Hillsboro) [mailto:edwin.cas...@fiserv.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:51 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > Ironically enough, the point of the UAC *is* to disrupt your process > > and *force* you to think about what you are doing. If you just play > > dumb and click OK or if you just disable UAC, then you have made a > > choice and taken deliberate action to lower the security level > offered > > by UAC. > > > > This is a change in behavior for most of us, but as Pally said, it > > doesn't make it wrong. You'll still need to play by the UAC rules > when > > you are designing/authoring an installer for consumption by other > > parties, regardless of whether you agree with the UAC design or not. > > > > Edwin G. Castro > > Software Developer - Staff > > Electronic Banking Services > > Fiserv > > Office: 503-746-0643 > > Fax: 503-617-0291 > > www.fiserv.com > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 9:03 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > I don't necessarily agree with the UAC design. For me it disrupts my > > thought process and workflow. After I click/double-click some action > I > > am thinking about the task to be completed. Then some dialog pops up > > wanting me to stop and decide if I was the initiator. Or worse, if I > > want to allow some access whose consequences I really do not > > understand. > > I could play dumb and just click OK. But any dialog could be an > > indicator of something wrong. So I stop, think, then click OK. Now > my > > workflow has been completely disrupted. And I'm trying to remember > what > > I intended to do. Of course, it could just be me... > > > > It is more secure when used properly. But it annoys me enough to > just > > turn it off. This is why -my- test of the installation worked just > fine > > but QA found a problem...my fault for not restoring the default. > > > > And yes, we will be signing the MSI so that the error message is a > > little less scary. > > > > Thanks again! > > > > > > Kurt Jensen > > Senior Software Engineer > > Ophir-Spiricon > > Ph: 435-755-5429 > > Cell: 435-764-2122 > > www.ophir-spiricon.com > > kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com > > > > The True Measure of Laser Performance(tm) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pally Sandher [mailto:pally.sand...@iesve.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 9:33 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > It's not a matter of putting up with #3, that's basic functionality > of > > UAC & Windows Installer on UAC systems. It won't elevate until it's > > good & ready to do something which needs elevation. If it did always > > run msiexec permanently elevated there would be legions of people > > complaining about how insecure it is. FYI this isn't a new thing, > it's > > been around since the release of Vista in January 2007. Just because > > you're used to the laziness that Windows XP/2000/NT4 allowed doesn't > > mean it was ever right or good or proper that you're now being forced > > to adhere to the guidelines instead of Microsoft simply asking you > > nicely to. > > > > BTW signing your MSI will make the UAC prompt look more friendly/less > > scary/more professional to your users. Last time we purchased a code > > signing certificate it cost us less than $200 for a 3 year > certificate > > from Comodo (through author.tucows.com) but that was in early 2008 so > > prices/offers may have changed since then. > > > > Palbinder Sandher > > Software Deployment & IT Administrator > > T: +44 (0) 141 945 8500 > > F: +44 (0) 141 945 8501 > > > > http://www.iesve.com > > **Design, Simulate + Innovate with the <Virtual Environment>** > > Integrated Environmental Solutions Limited. Registered in Scotland > No. > > SC151456 > > Registered Office - Helix Building, West Of Scotland Science Park, > > Glasgow G20 0SP Email Disclaimer > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: 10 June 2010 16:11 > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > OK. Duh. Forgot to add Impersonate="no" to the #1 custom action... > > Now it's good. > > > > > > Brain is a little scrambled trying to come up to speed on Code > Composer > > and finish this stuff for Windows 7. Two wildly divergent tasks... > > > > Thanks for all your help!!! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:06 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > Thanks. I got confused and thought Impersonate="no" was the default. > > Good coding practice is to be explicit about key parameters, default > > value or not. That took care of #2 & #4. > > > > I guess we all will now have to put up with #3. > > > > #1 is the real failure and continues to fail. This looks like a > > serious error in the WiX handling of custom actions. I understand > only > > a little. I know that custom actions, and any dependent assemblies, > > are placed in a temporary directory with the name "<custom action dll > > file > > name>=#". Apparently this mechanism is failing under UAC in Windows > 7. > > I would guess that the directory creation and file copy are not being > > elevated. This will fail if "Program Files" is read only to the > > current user. This confuses me because the user is required to be an > > administrator because we are installing drivers. > > > > Also, there is a current bug where the directory is not removed after > > the custom action is done. > > > > Kurt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Blair [mailto:os...@live.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:06 PM > > To: 'General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset.' > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > A couple of observations: > > > > Add Impersonate="no" to your CustomAction declarations. That > attribute > > defaults to "yes". You are impersonating the installing user instead > of > > running those CAs as SYSTEM. > > > > Normally custom actions are run from the Binary table instead of the > > File table, unless you also need them outside of your installation. > DTF > > CAs require write access to the directory that the DLL is run from. > For > > CAs run from the Binary table, Windows Installer places them in a > > location appropriate for the impersonation-level the CA will run at. > > For File table CAs, you have to ensure that. If a deferred CA is > > impersonating the installing user, it will lose elevation if that > > wasn't supplied before invoking MSI. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:30 PM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > 1) > > <DirectoryRef Id="APPLICATIONDIRECTORY"> > > <Component Id="CustomAction.Install.WiX" > > Guid="{5B6CBC69-4EA2-4648-A080-8D2027BAB081}"> > > <File Id="$(var.CustomAction.Install.WiX.TargetName)" > > > Source="$(var.CustomAction.Install.WiX.TargetDir)$(var.CustomAction.Ins > > t > > all.WiX.TargetName).CA.dll" /> > > </Component> > > </DirectoryRef> > > > > <CustomAction Id="CAInstall" > > FileKey="$(var.CustomAction.Install.WiX.TargetName)" > > DllEntry="CAInstall" Execute="commit" /> > > <CustomAction Id="CAUninstall" > > FileKey="$(var.CustomAction.Install.WiX.TargetName)" > > DllEntry="CAUninstall" Execute="deferred" /> > > > > <InstallExecuteSequence> > > <!-- Run CAInstall after InstallFiles only if the product was > not > > installed (i.e. do not run on uninstall) --> > > <Custom Action="CAInstall" Before="InstallFinalize">NOT > > Installed</Custom> > > <!-- Run CAInstall after InstallFiles only if the product was > > installed (i.e. only run on uninstall) --> > > <Custom Action="CAUninstall" > > Before="RemoveFiles">Installed</Custom> > > </InstallExecuteSequence> > > > > 2) > > > > <DirectoryRef Id="PYROCAMDIRECTORY"> > > <Component Id="PyrocamIII" > > Guid="21324FF8-D573-4811-A7E8-DB9A58274EAD"> > > <File > > Source="$(var.SolutionDir)..\..\Installations\Source\Pyrocam III > Device > > Driver 1.1.0.0\InstallII.exe" /> > > </Component> > > </DirectoryRef> > > > > <CustomAction Id="InstallII" > > Directory="PYROCAMDIRECTORY" > > ExeCommand="[PYROCAMDIRECTORY]InstallII.exe" > > Execute="deferred" > > Return="ignore" /> > > <InstallExecuteSequence> > > <Custom Action="InstallII" After="InstallFiles">NOT > > Installed</Custom> > > </InstallExecuteSequence> > > > > <InstallExecuteSequence> > > <Custom Action="ReenumPyrocam" After="InstallFiles">NOT > > Installed</Custom> > > </InstallExecuteSequence> > > > > 3,4) As I said, very annoying and looks unprofessional. The thought > is > > that there is something wrong with my installation which is why > Windows > > 7 has to ask permission. This is a cause for concern and phone calls. > > As a result, my supervisor and salesmen want no messages and no > > requests for permission. > > > > 5) "You can do all this in a plain MSI you just need to do it > > properly." > > I would if I could. Please explain. > > > > Kurt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pally Sandher [mailto:pally.sand...@iesve.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 11:40 AM > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > 1 - Post the Custom Action WiX code. Could be a number of things. > > > > 2 - See 1. > > > > 3 - That's expected behaviour. Windows Installer won't request > > elevation until it needs to which is when the InstallExecuteSequence > > starts (hence anything needing elevation should be in the > > InstallExecuteSequence between InstallInitialize & InstallFinalize). > > It's never "always elevated" unless you launch your msi from an > > elevated process e.g. > > command prompt started with "Run as Administrator" or a bootstrapper > > which requests elevation through a manifest. If you run your MSI with > > basic or no UI you'll see the UAC prompt immediately since there's no > > InstallUISequence being run. > > > > 4 - see 1 & 2. > > > > Sounds to me like your vdproj is either scheduling stuff correctly or > > (more likely) is taking the easy way out & running everything always > > fully elevated due to a manifest in its setup.exe. You can do all > this > > in a plain MSI you just need to do it properly. > > > > Palbinder Sandher > > Software Deployment & IT Administrator > > T: +44 (0) 141 945 8500 > > F: +44 (0) 141 945 8501 > > > > http://www.iesve.com > > **Design, Simulate + Innovate with the <Virtual Environment>** > > Integrated Environmental Solutions Limited. Registered in Scotland > No. > > SC151456 > > Registered Office - Helix Building, West Of Scotland Science Park, > > Glasgow G20 0SP Email Disclaimer > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: 09 June 2010 17:54 > > To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > P.S. I have incorporated the tools in 2-4, without any of these > > problems, in our current installation using Visual Studio vdproj. > > Surely there is some setting I am missing but have not found yet. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt Jensen [mailto:kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:23 AM > > To: wix-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > Subject: [WiX-users] MSI vs Windows 7 UAC > > > > First I need some guidance. I have several problems which all appear > > related to dealing with UAC on Windows 7. But they may each require > > separate solutions. Should I post these separately? > > > > > > > > 1) On a Windows 7 computer with the default UAC setting, my > > installation appears to be failing because SFXCA fails to extract my > > custom action to a temporary directory. The relevant messages I get > in > > the log are: > > > > > > > > SFXCA: Extracting custom action to temporary directory: C:\Program > > Files\Spiricon\BeamGage > > > > Standard\CustomAction.Install.WiX.CA.dll-9\ > > > > > > > > SFXCA: Failed to extract to temporary directory. Cabinet error code > > 11. > > > > > > > > CustomAction CAInstall returned actual error code 1603 > > > > > > > > This message is followed immediately by Rollback messages. > > > > > > > > 2) We use a program, written many years ago, that calls > > CM_Reenumerate_DevNode in order to simulate Find New Hardware. > > Originally I thought that this program was causing the install to > fail > > but I removed it and found the failure described above. When I tried > to > > just run it, UAC said it needed elevated privileges. When I ran it > as > > administrator it appeared to execute without error. But, I keep an > > error message in the log as if it was not being run at elevated > > privileges. I thought deferred custom actions, and Impersonate="no", > > were executed with elevated privileges. Any ideas how I can debug > > this? > > > > > > > > 3) When I click through the installation dialogs, I always get a UAC > > dialog before the actual install starts. I always thought MSI was > > elevated and would "just run". My MSI is not (yet) signed. Would > this > > help? > > > > > > > > 4) I am using a third tool to install third part drivers. I run this > > tool three times. And three times I get a UAC dialog. This is not > > only annoying, it looks very unprofessional. This tool is run in a > > custom action. Again, I thought deferred custom actions were > executed > > with elevated privileges. > > > > > > > > Please note that I am using WiX v3.0. > > > > > > > > TIA! > > > > > > > > Kurt Jensen > > > > Senior Software Engineer > > > > Ophir-Spiricon > > > > Ph: 435-755-5429 > > > > Cell: 435-764-2122 > > > > www.ophir-spiricon.com <http://www.ophir-spiricon.com/> > > > > kurt.jen...@ophir-spiricon.com > > <mailto:kenneth.fer...@ophir-spiricon.com> > > > > > > > > The True Measure of Laser Performance(tm) > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > > the system manager. > > > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > > > www.clearswift.com > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ---- > > -- > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > - > > ------ > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ------- > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad > Father's > > Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the > > prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ------- > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ------- > > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
