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-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: James Mckenzie <[email protected]>
>Sent: May 20, 2010 12:49 PM
>To: Damjan Jovanovic <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Release plans
>
>>
>>On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:31 PM,  <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>
>>Hi
>>
>>>>The 64-bit support is now more or less complete
>>> I hope I can finish my MCI parser patches in time. Without them,
>>> every 64bit app using MCI string commands is likely to crash (OTOH
>>> MCI commands work (those using the MCI_*_PARAMS structures)).
>>>
>>>
>>> What can Mac users expect from this release?
>>
>>Hopefully, conversion to Linux :-).
>>
>No.  BTW, I've used:
>
>TRSDOS (Model III)
>MS-DOS 1.0/2.0/3.0/4.0/5.0/6.0 (6.22) and updates
>DR-DOS 4.0/5.0
>Windows 3.1, 3.11WFW, 95, 98, NT 3.51, NT 4.0, XP and Vista
>OS/2
>Linux, Linux and more Linux (it is still user unfriendly)
>Mac Classic
>MacOSX 10.3/.4/.5
>
>I consider MacOSX the most polished as a User Experience of all of them.
>
>>> Yesterday I installed an app with wine-1.1.44 on Mac OS (instead of
>>> moving it from a Linux install). It was disappointing from a user POV:
>>>
>>> - Wine created .desktop files that work on Linux but don't make sense
>>>  on Mac OS.  Here I've been thinking about a simple patch that would
>>>  instead generate a .command file like I've described in the FAQ.
>>>  OTOH, Steven Edwards IIRC once had a much more elaborate patch about
>>>  better Mac OS integration, rejected last year.
>>>
>>> - In the hidden directory ~/.local/share/icons/ it created .xpm files
>>>  that the Finder does not display.  .png would be displayed.
>>
>>winemenubuilder generates .png only for 24 and 32 bits-per-pixel
>>icons, all other resolutions get converted to .xpm. I am planning to
>>change it to make .png's for everything, since thumbnailing .lnk files
>>requires .png as output, and then keep .xpm only as a fallback when
>>libpng is not installed and we're not thumbnailing. This should help
>>you on MacOS too.
>
>Thank you.  It is not a good thing that MacOSX cannot use .xpm files "out of 
>the box".
>>
>>> I have no idea how the other packages built atop Wine behave on MacOS 
>>> behave:
>>>  - Kronenberg's WineBottler
>>>  - doh's WineSkin
>>>  - Macports build
>>>  - CodeWeaver's CrossOver4Mac
>>> I assume they create nice icons that the user can click after an install.
>>>
>>> Regarding the former 2 packages, I've always been wondering why
>>> there's some sort of split in the Wine+Mac user community.  Obviously
>>> the stock Wine fails to meet the Mac user's expectations, such that
>>> several people start and write something better integrated with the
>>> GUI -- but not integrated into the Wine source.
>>
>>From visiting the websites, I see Kronenberg's Winebottler doesn't
>>provide source (the source link takes you to an empty repository;
>>interestingly the LGPL requires you to provide the changed source if
>>you distribute the software...)
>
>That's because Mike no longer makes any changes directly to the Wine code.  He 
>states that on the site (or did.)
>>Wineskin is a complete installation
>>wrapper that I would guess does the desktop integration itself,
>
>That's what doh123 states.  It is a wrapper program that builds an exportable 
>.app product that will start Wine and then any program that you wrap with it.  
>He also gets the files for specific programs using winetricks.
>
>>macports.org is down but http://wine.darwinports.com/ doesn't have any
>>relevant patches, and I don't have CrossOver4Mac or a Mac to test it
>>and see what it does.
>>
>CrossOver Mac is and will remain a commercial product.  They do all sorts of 
>magic to fix the brokenness of Apple/XQuartz(s) X11's inability to display 
>full screen and other enhancements specific to making Wine work better on the 
>MacOSX platform.
>
>>Maybe it's that Linux users generally expect the free software to be
>>good, while Mac users generally expect good software to cost money, so
>>when someone develops the extra bits for Wine on Mac, they either keep
>>them to themselves or sell them? Also, I think more Wine developers
>>use Linux than Mac, so there's less interest in fixing Wine on Mac.
>>
>No.  Mac users expect Mac software to just damn work.  We don't want to 
>'tweek' and 'twist' and apply patch after patch after patch.  If it don't 
>work, out of the box, it goes.  We don't have time to 'play'.  So, many of us 
>use Crossover.  We pay for others to fix that which is broken.  That being 
>said, there are those of us that really like the challange of making Windows 
>software work on the Mac as well as making Linux software work on the Mac.  
>And we EXPECT to get paid for it.  
>
>Please be aware that 'free' software NEVER IS.  The phrase "You get what you 
>pay for" really applies here.  Again, Mac users have been conditioned to 'it 
>works'.  Wine is not, at the present time, ready for this level of acceptance 
>and may never be.  And no, Mac users are not going to switch to Linux.  Some 
>may run Ubuntu, but a vast majority unpack the system, plug it in and go to 
>work.
>
>>> And I didn't write trivial Mac patches either, e.g. to have
>>> wineprefixcreate symlink c:\users\xyz\ Desktop + Videos + Documents +
>>> Music to /Users/xyz/Desktop/ etc.  This happens on Linux, not on MacOS.
>>> That's another (example of a) missing element.
>>> (Why didn't I write it? Because I was unsure where to put the #ifdef)
>>
>>Isn't that linking done relative to $HOME, which should resolve to
>>/Users/xyz on Mac?
>>
>Correct.  When a new user is created on the Mac, the user name, less spaces 
>and special characters, is used for the folder name.  The Desktop folder IS 
>the Mac Aqua desktop and I highly suggest NOT placing .desktop and .lnk files 
>there.  Unlike Windows users, most Mac users like to keep their desktops 
>'clean'.  Doing what you desire will take more work and a good poll of the Mac 
>community before implementation.  This is part of the reason that Apple has 
>used the Dock and created Documents/Download folders on it.  Maybe that would 
>be a good place to put Wine application icons.
>
>Please keep in mind that this is not to bash Linux or Windows users.  Each 
>category of user has their own method of OS and system use.
>
>James McKenzie



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