> > Again, this isn't enwiki, but there would be a large mob gathering at the > administrators' doorstep on enwiki for a block without that context and > backstory. >
That seems like really toxic behavior. On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 6:27 AM George Herbert <[email protected]> wrote: > I keep seeing "abusers" and I still haven't seen the evidence of the > alleged long term abuse pattern. > > Again, this isn't enwiki, but there would be a large mob gathering at the > administrators' doorstep on enwiki for a block without that context and > backstory. That's not exactly the standard here, but ... would someone > just answer the question? What happened leading up to this to justify the > block? If it's that well known, you can document it. > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:18 AM, Adam Wight <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Petr, > > > > Nobody is language policing, this is about preventing abusive behavior > and > > creating an inviting environment where volunteers and staff don't have to > > waste time with emotional processing of traumatic interactions. > > > > I think we're after the same thing, that we want to keep our community > > friendly and productive, so it's just a matter of agreeing on the means > to > > accomplish this. I see the Code of Conduct Committee standing up to the > > nonsense and you see them as being hostile, so our perspectives diverge > at > > that point. I also see lots of people on this list standing up for what > > they think is right, and I'd love if that energy could be organized > better > > so that we're not sniping at each other, but instead refining our shared > > statements of social values and finding a way to encourage the good while > > more effectively addressing the worst in us. > > > > This isn't coherent enough to share yet, but I'll try anyway—I've been > > thinking about how our high proportion of anarchic- and > > libertarian-oriented individuals helped shape a culture which doesn't > > handle "negative laws" [1] well. For example, the Code of Conduct is > > mostly focused on "unacceptable behaviors", but perhaps we could rewrite > it > > in the positive sense, as a set of shared responsibilities to support > each > > other and the less powerful person in any conflict. We have a duty to > > speak up, a duty to keep abusers from their target, we own this social > > space and have to maintain it together. If you see where I'm headed? > > Rewriting the CoC in a positive rights framework is a daunting project, > but > > it might be fun. > > > > Regards, > > Adam > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights > > > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:36 AM Petr Bena <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I am a bit late to the party, but do we seriously spend days > > > discussing someone being banned from a bug tracker just for saying > > > "WTF", having their original comment completely censored, so that the > > > community can't even make a decision how bad it really was? Is that > > > what we turned into? From highly skilled developers and some of best > > > experts in the field to a bunch of language nazis? > > > > > > We have tens of thousands of open tasks to work on and instead of > > > doing something useful we are wasting our time here. Really? Oh, come > > > on... > > > > > > We are open source developers. If you make Phabricator too hostile to > > > use it by setting up some absolutely useless and annoying rules, > > > people will just move to some other bug tracker, or decide to spend > > > their free time on a different open source project. Most of us are > > > volunteers, we don't get money for this. > > > > > > P.S. if all the effort we put into this gigantic thread was put into > > > solving the original bug instead (yes it's a bug, not a feature) it > > > would be already resolved. Instead we are mocking someone who was so > > > desperate with the situation to use some swear words. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 12:06 AM, Yaron Koren <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Nuria Ruiz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> The CoC will prioritize the safety of the minority over the comfort > of > > > the > > > >> majority. > > > > > > > > This is an odd thing to say, in this context. I don't believe > anyone's > > > > safety is endangered by hearing the phrase in question, so it seems > > like > > > > just an issue of comfort on both sides. And who are the minority and > > > > majority here? > > > > > > > >> The way the bug was closed might be incorrect (I personally as an > > > engineer > > > >> agree that closing it shows little understanding of how technical > > teams > > > do > > > >> track bugs in phab, some improvements are in order here for sure) > but > > > the > > > >> harsh interaction is just one out of many that have been out of line > > for > > > >> while. > > > > > > > > This seems like the current argument - that it's not really about the > > use > > > > of a phrase, it's about an alleged pattern of behavior by MZMcBride. > > What > > > > this pattern is I don't know - the one example that was brought up > was > > a > > > > blog post he wrote six years ago, which caused someone else to say > > > > something mean in the comments. (!) As others have pointed out, > > there's a > > > > lack of transparency here. > > > > > > > > -Yaron > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > -- > -george william herbert > [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
