or the 3am meetings On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 at 19:49, Gnangarra <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hiring people because they are in such countries as the basis for saving > money is morally bankrupt, yet we'll happily draw from the pool of > donations that primarily come from those more expensive countries. Much > like we talk about equity but decide that some places arent worth engaging > in because its too far to travel leaving others to shoulder the burden of > travel. > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 at 19:35, Felipe Schenone <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yet in some countries, like mine, paying for food, renting a place, >> buying a house, etc. is far cheaper than in the US, so paying a lower >> salary (in USD) wouldn't amount to a lower standard of living at all, and >> doesn't feel immoral, at least to me. >> >> On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 8:00 AM Gnangarra <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Either we make software development cheaper somehow (move the WMF to >>>> Romania or something) >>> >>> >>> Hiring in countries with the worst labour laws and cheapest minimum >>> wages is totally immoral. Especially in a community where equity is part of >>> our culture we must endeavour to ensure that employees/contractors >>> regardless of where they live paid fairly and equally subject to skills and >>> responsibilities of the role. WMF already has many employees that are >>> based in countries where such immoral employment conditions dominate. >>> >>>> >>> On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 at 05:49, Dan Garry (Deskana) <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I agree with much of what Amir has said here, except one little bit... >>>> >>>> On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 at 20:52, Amir Sarabadani <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And even if a software would have an owner, it used to be that the >>>>> team was under so much pressure to produce new things instead of >>>>> maintenance that the software would practically be without a maintainer >>>>> (or >>>>> worse, as even volunteers couldn't unofficially take the role). I can >>>>> example a few. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think pressure on a team to deliver new things is *one* reason why >>>> this situation has come about, but it's far from being the only one. Here's >>>> a few others off the top of my head: >>>> >>>> - Owning so many things that even if there was zero pressure to >>>> deliver new features, the team still couldn't maintain everything that >>>> they >>>> own. >>>> - Incredibly powerful and incredibly complex features that teams >>>> are afraid of touching lest they break them and make community members >>>> angry. >>>> - Conservatism and fear of community outrage causing reluctance to >>>> deprecate functionality. >>>> - Lack of understanding of the impact of the feature. >>>> - Lack of a clear roadmap (a list of bug reports and feature >>>> requests is not a roadmap). >>>> >>>> There's more but those are some that come to the top of my head. And, >>>> not everyone one of those always applies to every situation, e.g. I >>>> definitely don't think all of the items in your list should be deprecated! >>>> >>>> This causes the path of least resistance to be, for everyone involved, >>>> to leave things in limbo and hope for the best. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/Y4YKOLNJKWAUQFNOVMZSKDSZRORSWFNB/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Boodarwun >>> Gnangarra >>> 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardoon ngalang Nyungar >>> koortaboodjar' >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/P2JSB3JJ6ZOLPMBYV3EPYDP5RALWN7O6/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/OSWIMESHLJQ57TRBXAIEYTW7YLSDKX7V/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > -- > Boodarwun > Gnangarra > 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardoon ngalang Nyungar > koortaboodjar' > > -- Boodarwun Gnangarra 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardoon ngalang Nyungar koortaboodjar'
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