> > In fact, we’ve pretty much concluded that disclosing a minor editors age > publicly, or to more people than necessary, would decrease their safety. > Requiring age verification may not disclose the childs’ age publicly, but > it would expose their age to more people. One would hope these people have > secure accounts, but that’s difficult to impossible to enforce. It would be > more ideal if no one knew the exact age of minor editors (“minor” being > defined as 15 and under at the moment), so accidental exposure is > impossible.
I've realized that I'm having trouble reconciling a minors right to privacy while proving that they are, in fact, minors. On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 5:04 AM Neurodivergent Netizen < [email protected]> wrote: > Wikipedia is not asking any extra step nor age confirmation, and legally > you can have an account even if you are underage. > > > In fact, we’ve pretty much concluded that disclosing a minor editors age > publicly, or to more people than necessary, would decrease their safety. > Requiring age verification may not disclose the childs’ age publicly, but > it would expose their age to more people. One would hope these people have > secure accounts, but that’s difficult to impossible to enforce. It would be > more ideal if no one knew the exact age of minor editors (“minor” being > defined as 15 and under at the moment), so accidental exposure is > impossible. > > Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult > content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at > Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended > for that. > > > I’d like to disclaim that I think pornographic pictures on Commons is a > genuine issue, and we need to take steps to decrease the amount of them. > However, one controversy we run into is the definition of “adult content,” > and also “appropriate for teenagers but not for children.” Even with porn, > you kind of know it when you see it but you can’t *quite* define > it, particularly when there might be an academic need to visually depict or > describe sexual acts or human anatomy (like, for example, on Wikipedia). > This makes filtration, even if installed on a computer instead of a > website, problematic. > > I’ll respond to your “there’s no advice” below. > > The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so providing > them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction says) is > better that not providing at all. > > > We’ve actually think of children quite a bit on Wikipedia. Hence, my last > few paragraphs, which have been partially informed by discussions with > other Wikimedians. If there’s any doubt, here are multiple links for proof: > > *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protecting_children%27s_privacy > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protecting_children's_privacy> > *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Child_protection > *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guidance_for_younger_editors > *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Advice_for_parents > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Advice_for_parents> > * > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children%27s_privacy > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children's_privacy> > > And that’s just from one search. I’m sure I can find other essays in more > obscure parts of Wikipedia, but I think six essays/policy/guideline pages > is quite enough. :-) > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > > > > > On Jun 22, 2022, at 3:37 AM, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga < > [email protected]> wrote: > > From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any > extra step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even > if you are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and > they can find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, > nor filters at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were > not intended for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from > children, so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our > strategic direction says) is better that not providing at all. > > If you want to know more about Txikipedia, contact us, please. > > Galder > ------------------------------ > *From:* Neurodivergent Netizen <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2022 2:59 AM > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia > > I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia > project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere > that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that > America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks > when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids > are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not > worth the extra effort. This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff > so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the > background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are > obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects. > > I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite > quickly. > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > On Jun 21, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Mathias Damour <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Ziko, Samuel and everybody, > > *De:* "Ziko van Dijk" <[email protected]> > Hello Samuel, > > Thank you for your mail. I would like to see more attention from the > Wikimedia movement for the target group children age ca. 8-14. > > I am afraid there is no real comprehensive study about the best way to > provide encyclopedic wiki content to children, or even to involve them in > the content creation. > > In general, children are a very special and vulnerable group. This can > become problematic when they are directly involved on a platform, and when > it comes to the content itself. > > And yet it works well with Vikidia, which has been active for more than 15 > years, writing an average of 6 articles par day since the beginning ! > There is some blog posts that elaborate how it works, what it implies and > what it means to let a multi-age community work together, unfortunatly only > in french (except one in english): > https://www.wikimedia.fr/author/astirmays/ > My english is certainly not good enought to translate them properly, yet I > would be glad to get some help to do so or to find a way to get them > translated (anybody tell me if you wish to help translating 2 or 3 of > theses posts !) > One also reviews some of the commons objections to such a project and how > we adress them. > > Samuel Klein <[email protected]> schrieb am Mo. 20. Juni 2022 um 02:25: > > More languages should try that. a) simple skin hack, b) loving and > lovely idea, c) more compelling to me than the standalone kidipedia > projects :) Anyway, thanks for improving my weekend, Txikipedians. SJ > > Actually when you have a "standalone kidipedia project", it has the great > benefit to allow to have its own community, and not to be marginalized > inside a much bigger project. Both young readers and young editors love it. > I guess that the choice may depend on the size of the "mother" Wikipedia > and the potential community to gather on this project. > > Mathias Damour > [[User:Astirmays]] > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/44SJI3LVF2SIZUMTQS43F5MRBENZYEQT/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/ROGUHPZ7YSQNZVP3VE4A2AAU2H6DIUSL/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > -- From, I dream of horses
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