Perhaps a conversation about the most optimal location for WMF (which I imagine is more relevant in a strategy framework) is more constructive in its own thread. I imagine that this has been part of plenty strategic conversations over the past years, and will be in the future - meaning that there are likely some people who have more insightful things to say about this, than the people who open a thread about form 990 :)
Best, Lodewijk On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:40 AM Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Bodhisattwa, > > I quite agree. A somewhat similar set-up exists in Germany where donations > are collected by the Wikimedia Fördergesellschaft ("Wikimedia Patron > Society"), a subsidiary of Wikimedia Germany. The Fördergesellschaft then > sends a part of its funds to the Wikimedia Foundation in the United States > and uses the rest to fund Wikimedia Germany: > > https://spenden.wikimedia.de/use-of-funds > > However, this is the only such arrangement I am aware of. (Wikimedia UK > used to have a similar one, but this ended when various conflicts of > interest arose in the chapter, prompting a governance review.[1]) > > In my opinion, the kind of decentralised arrangement you suggest is much > more compatible with a worldwide movement. Such decentralisation and > distributed decision-making also aids diversity, in a far more > down-to-earth sense than talking about it does. (For example, Wikimedia > Germany writes and designs its own fundraising banners, and over the years > they've often been more culturally appropriate – and honest – than the WMF > ones.) > > But, coming back to the question of where staff should be located, to the > extent that the Wikimedia Foundation in the United States does take on > global responsibilities (e.g. for keeping the software up to date ... I > really like the new Reply feature on talk pages, for example), I think it > would be desirable to have more of its staff outside the United States, > including places like India. > > San Francisco is one of the most expensive places to live in the world, > and if Covid and Zoom have taught us anything it's that it is really not > necessary to be physically in the same place all the time to work together. > Hiring more staff abroad rather than in Silicon Valley is another thing > that would make the WMF culturally more diverse. > > Regards, > Andreas > > [1] > https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/investigation-into-governance-at-wikimedia-uk-launched.html > > https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/wikimedia-uk-trustees-have-been--too-involved--to-effectively-govern-charity.html > > https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/review-urges-major-overhaul-governance-wikimedia-uk/governance/article/1170282 > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 1:37 AM Bodhisattwa <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Andreas, >> >> Regarding the money raised in India, there is actually another option >> which can be more useful for the Indian volunteers. The money does not need >> to be transferred out of India to US and then come back through different >> grants as foreign money under strict regulations from the government. The >> money can just be kept in India in an organization account which will agree >> to be the custodian of it. A process can then be initiated to sustain the >> Indian affiliates and communities for future with that money as per >> movement strategy recommendation. I think that would be far better an >> option for us than to increase the number of growing WMF staffs in India or >> pay them salary with that money. >> >> Regards, >> Bodhisattwa >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022, 03:45 Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Strainu, >>> >>> The outlier problem is manageable I believe, given that the Form 990 >>> lists the compensation of the dozen highest-paid employees (going up to >>> just over $400,000 in 2019). >>> >>> There were actually more people (four) north of $300,000 in 2018 than >>> there were in 2019 (two) – a reflection of long-term C-level vacancies, I >>> believe. So the average does tell us something. >>> >>> As for people working at the Foundation easily being able to earn much >>> more in for-profit companies, the same applies to us, mate. :) Instead of >>> working for free on Wikipedia, you and me could easily be doing work >>> elsewhere that pays *much* better. :)) Also, I don't ask people in >>> second- and third-world countries to give me more money each year – >>> pretending to be hard up, while earning a burgeoning six-figure salary and >>> living a first-world lifestyle. >>> >>> Levity aside, and returning to the topic of the upcoming fundraisers, I >>> am aware that there are many reasonably or even extremely wealthy people in >>> India who can well afford to donate to Wikipedia. And donating can be a >>> good feeling, for anyone who is able to afford it. On the other hand it >>> seems to me from watching social media that the people who are most >>> affected or even distressed by Wikipedia's meretricious claims of poverty >>> are often those who are *genuinely* not well off themselves. The >>> messages resonate with them, and they falsely assume Wikipedia is in a >>> similar position. :/ I wouldn't want people with $100 in the bank to give >>> $2 so that people in SF can pocket a six-figure salary. >>> >>> Another point about fundraising from relatively poor people and >>> countries: overall, according to the most recent Wikimedia fundraising >>> report, the lion's share of donations in 2020/21 (around 94%) came from US, >>> European and Australian donors. So the main financial burden is borne by >>> the richest societies, which is as it should be. But it may be an idea to >>> make a public commitment that money collected in places like India will >>> never go to pay for expenses or salaries in the US, but will always be >>> spent locally (again without ever implying that continuation of local >>> services is *dependent* on new donations). >>> >>> It might also be good to increase the proportion of staff based in those >>> countries – which, to be fair, I believe the Foundation is already in the >>> process of doing. >>> >>> Best, >>> Andreas >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 10:31 AM Strainu <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Andreas, I understand this email won't address your more serious >>>> questions, but I believe it's fair to point out that the average salary >>>> will tell you nothing relevant. Without drilling down on job family, your >>>> results will be skewed by outliers. >>>> >>>> I can name out of the top of my head 10 people working at the >>>> foundation in 2019 which I believe could get half a million dollar offers >>>> from software companies in the bay area (that's $500.000 per year before >>>> tax). While it's likely the Foundation doesn't pay this much, they're >>>> probably not paying at 50% discount either. >>>> >>>> It's also worth asking if the salary costs include other type of >>>> compensation,such as visa support or relocation costs. >>>> >>>> Also, maybe a lawyer can answer some of the questions the WMF won't >>>> answer, as they are familiar with form 990 and the "tricks" of filling it. >>>> >>>> Strainu >>>> >>>> >>>> Pe joi, 3 martie 2022, Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> a scris: >>>> > Dear all, >>>> > >>>> > To bring some sort of closure to this thread about Wikimedia salary >>>> costs, Wikimedia CEO Maryana Iskander did eventually post a response on >>>> Meta.[1] My question and her reply are copied in full below. >>>> > >>>> > What please was the 2019 salary cost per WMF employee, per the most >>>> recent Wikimedia Foundation Form 990? >>>> > >>>> > According to the linked Form 990, the WMF had salary costs of >>>> $55,634,913 (page 1, line 15, "Salaries, other compensation, employee >>>> benefits") in 2019, and a total of 291 employees (page 1, line 5). On the >>>> face of it, this makes for an average salary cost of over $191K per >>>> employee. >>>> > >>>> > Is this the correct figure, or if not, what is the correct >>>> calculation for the average salary cost per employee in 2019? Are there >>>> estimates for more recent years? Thanks, --Andreas JN466 01:04, 17 February >>>> 2022 (UTC)[reply] >>>> > >>>> > Hi Andreas - I am six weeks into the job and have seen your questions >>>> about salaries at the Wikimedia Foundation in various public forums. I >>>> would like to try and give you a response. What interests me most is >>>> understanding the motivations for your questions so that I can attempt to >>>> share appropriate information. You are welcome to contact me directly at >>>> miskander< >>>> https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/jiZCnbhuUZi7Hpf8KqsEHXt0SN6owx0bjebYerkxpmxJAXQeLwDEUXJlkBSND1k_KKAT_HGgJax2rAHcxuDhk9LayaxRvh0yA7OWGh0_Mq0X6vLvKVNkvEHfGZfYjYYcQ1q3ItszeGDk_4Vb5Q=s0-d-e1-ft#https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/16px-At_sign.svg.png >>>> >wikimedia.org for a conversation as I won’t respond further here.What >>>> I can share is the following:Calculating an average salary based on the >>>> Form 990 is highly misleading. It produces totals that match our >>>> highest-paid employees, as you see on the 990 form. This is true of many >>>> organisations, not only the Wikimedia Foundation. As we will not release >>>> non-public salary information in public forums, we accept that this number >>>> is much higher than the true average salary. We currently have over 500 >>>> staff all over the world that are in a wide variety of job types and >>>> levels, each of which are paid differently and by location. An average is >>>> difficult to calculate and while it may provide a data point, it lacks >>>> meaning for evaluating our performance as an organisation. An average >>>> salary cost, even based on non-public data, is not useful for most of the >>>> issues that concern me most. We hire in over 50 countries, which is a >>>> reflection of our values as a global movement, but introduces complexity in >>>> ensuring we can offer competitive packages that will attract mission-driven >>>> talent, and especially engineers who we need to support the technology >>>> obligations of the Foundation. People are the biggest investment we make in >>>> supporting the Wikimedia projects and community, so this is a topic of >>>> critical importance to me. Finally, I have also checked that we are in line >>>> with other open knowledge organisations (e.g., Mozilla, Creative Commons, >>>> EFF) in the financial, salary, budget, and staff information that we >>>> publish. MIskander-WMF (talk) 14:54, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply] >>>> > I'll just leave some general comments on Maryana's response here. >>>> > 1. An organisation committed to transparency shouldn't give a >>>> friendly or beholden inquirer any different information than a hostile one >>>> in response to questions of fact. In both cases, the information should >>>> simply be accurate. I have no desire to ingratiate myself. >>>> > 2. As for my motivation, it's surely one that any Wikipedian can >>>> relate to: I would like the public to have access to accurate information. >>>> I sometimes write about these topics[2][3] and assist journalists with >>>> related research. >>>> > 3. I don't accept that calculating an average for 291 employees >>>> produces a figure that matches "our highest-paid employees". On the >>>> contrary, it produces a figure for ALL "employees" in the strict sense of >>>> the word (excluding freelancers). Even factoring in freelancers, the 291 >>>> employees listed on the Form 990 were by far the majority of the total >>>> number of people working for the WMF in 2019, and not some sort of elite. >>>> > 4. I did not ask for the release of non-public information. I simply >>>> wanted to know how many people's pay, approximately, the front-page figure >>>> of $55.6 million represents. I thought it was 291, based on the "Total >>>> number of individuals employed in calendar year 2019" given in the Form >>>> 990. Anne/Risker asserted the $55.6 million figure also included the pay of >>>> the 82 contractors listed in Part V, line 1a. Which is it? Are some or all >>>> of those contractors included in the salary costs total? The WMF won't say. >>>> > 5. Salary costs are the WMF's biggest expenditure item. They reached >>>> $69M in 2020/21 – a tenfold increase in the course of a decade. Throughout >>>> that period of staff and salary growth, the Wikimedia Foundation regularly >>>> and purposely created an impression in the public's mind that it was >>>> struggling to have enough money to keep Wikipedia up and running – >>>> donations were solicited by telling the public that money was urgently >>>> needed to keep Wikipedia "ad-free", "keep Wikipedia online", "protect >>>> Wikipedia's independence", etc. Money used to fund organisational growth >>>> should not be collected under the pretence of financial emergencies >>>> jeopardising the continuation of basic services; members of the public >>>> should know what they are funding. >>>> > 6. Another Indian fundraiser is due to start in a few weeks' time. >>>> Former WMF CEO Katherine Maher acknowledged to me[4] that there were >>>> problems with the messaging in the last Indian fundraiser, resulting in >>>> press stories that were "misleading and alarmist". I hope that the WMF will >>>> do its best this year to ensure that the Indian press is accurately >>>> informed about Wikimedia's financial past and present situation, including >>>> the Wikimedia Endowment, and that fundraising messages, emails and >>>> statements given to the press will not continue to imply that Wikipedia's >>>> "independence", online "accessibility" or "survival" will be endangered >>>> unless the Indian public donates money. >>>> > 7. While I'm on this topic, the Wikimedia Endowment, now well on its >>>> way to the $200M mark, is completely non-transparent. It has no public >>>> records and no audited accounts; people have no way of knowing how the >>>> money is invested, what if anything it is spent on, how much Tides and >>>> other consultants and contractors are paid for holding and administering >>>> the fund, and so on. In my view, both the community and the public are owed >>>> a little more transparency than that. >>>> > Andreas >>>> > [1] >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:IRS_tax_related_information/2019_Wikimedia_Foundation_Form_990_Frequently_Asked_Questions&diff=22851697&oldid=22849131 >>>> >>>> > [2] >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2015-03-18/Op-ed >>>> > [3] https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikipedia-endownemnt-fundraising/ >>>> > [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27371849 >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:10 PM Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Dear WMF accounts staff, >>>> >> Could you kindly clarify whether the "Salaries, other compensation, >>>> employee benefits" figure in Part I, line 15 of the Form 990 relates solely >>>> to the 291 employees indicated in Part I, line 5, or whether it also >>>> includes salaries, compensation and benefits for the 82 contractors listed >>>> in Part V, line 1a of the Form 990. >>>> >> Thank you. >>>> >> Andreas >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/TWKZYK33UXQMMAOYLULG56JJXMLPZQ3W/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/S24SQDX5IUDMQHR7GLLGWEVO7AKXTEPN/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/S42PZQFFTK5OHZFECFNH3J2BYCLN3RTG/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/GIMYXHX3FOOMI5YFFJIW2VY62IMR3ZYC/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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