I'd just like to point out that trying to move to a new location in this pandemic era, especially in a country with (pardon me if I give offense but) widespread skepticism if not outright resistance to vaccinations, can be quite risky to one's health or the health of one's families. So I think we should take such a discussion out of this thread. The location of employees generally for future hires could be something to be discussed, but perhaps that too should be in a separate thread.
Ariel On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:45 PM Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: > Yaroslav, > > These public disclosures of both overall salary costs and top-earners' > individual salaries are mandated by law. > > There is little point in having legislators mandate public disclosures if > then nobody reads and discusses them. > > This said, I am quite open to being told that I take a too jaundiced view > of some things. I am also aware that many WMF staff located in San > Francisco are not "rich" by any means, even though they may on paper be > earning four or five times what someone doing the same job in Europe or > Asia is earning. This has to do with the fact that WMF salaries fluctuate > widely, those at the bottom earning far less than those at the top, and the > cost of living in San Francisco is exorbitant. > > But I do ask myself, especially in view of the past two years of Covid and > Zoom meetings, and so many people working from home, what point there is in > having large numbers of WMF staffers based in San Francisco. > > Andreas > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:33 PM Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Am I the only one who thinks that discussing salaries (even if publicly >> disclosed) of named persons on this mailing list is highly inappropriate? >> >> (I have no relation to WMF or any of these persons, for the record). >> >> Best >> Yaroslav >> >> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:45 PM Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Christophe, >>> >>> "First year" applies in Jaime Villagomez' case (who took over as CFO on >>> Feb. 1, 2016). Thank you for pointing that out. If his 2016 salary of >>> $237,665 was only for eleven months (yielding an annual salary figure of >>> 12/11 x 237,665 = 259,270), that does reduce the increase over three years >>> to about $30,000. >>> >>> Toby Negrin and Lisa Seitz-Gruwell both joined before 2016, so no >>> first-year exception applies in their cases. >>> >>> You say it's important to look at the percentage increases. Let's do so. >>> >>> In Jaime's case, with 2016–2019 base salaries of $259,270 (est.), >>> $264,341, $275,495 and $289,356, I arrive at annual percentage increases of >>> 2.0%, 4.2% and 5.0%. >>> >>> In Lisa's case ($209,706, $216,556, $229,170, $252,117) I make the >>> increases 3.3%, 5.8%, 10.0%. >>> >>> In Toby's case ($192,018, $214,504, $228,023, $237,992) the increases >>> were 11.7%, 6.3%, 4.4%. >>> >>> Per the Form 990 info, WMF salary costs per head increased year-on-year >>> by 13%, 7% and 6% (if you use Anne's method of calculating the average >>> salary cost per head; with the one I first used only the first figure would >>> change, to 15%, while the other two are unaffected). >>> >>> As for market practice in the US, according to the US Average Wage >>> Index[1], the average increases in those years were 3.45%, 3.62% and 3.75%. >>> >>> The above salary increases are well above these national averages. They >>> are also, it must be said, financed by fundraising banners making people >>> believe that Wikimedia is struggling to have enough money to keep Wikipedia >>> up and running. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> [1] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:05 PM Christophe Henner < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm sorry but I feel that discussion is loaded and meant to create a >>>> heated debate and not provide good analysis data points. >>>> >>>> I was surprised by your claims, so I picked one example, not giving >>>> names to not single anyone out. >>>> >>>> First, you assume the first year is systematically a full year, it >>>> never is. And yes even if you arrive mid january, it does take a dent in >>>> your yearly compensation (it represents 5%). >>>> Second, you voluntarily speak in numbers and not ratio, which makes all >>>> data easy to twist. The one I checked had a 4% to 6% yearly salary increase >>>> which all in all is market practice in the US (we can argue about the >>>> discrepancies but hey). >>>> Third, even if you spot a higher increase, going into personal details >>>> about the increase is meaningless (such increases can be related to pre >>>> negotiated increase, to planned catch up on cost of living, on role change, >>>> role expansion, new responsibilities, beyond expectations achievements, a >>>> load of valid HR reasons). >>>> >>>> If only on very specific and verifiable data points like those I can >>>> find how you distort reality to fit your narrative I can only assume you >>>> are doing the same for the rest of the discussion. >>>> >>>> Public eye provides a safeguard for problems and financial abuses, yes >>>> (and that's why 503c are public). >>>> >>>> But twisting those data to spread gratuitous shade on people working >>>> for the Foundation (and even naming them) is wrong and honestly shows a >>>> lack of empathy (you don't care about how people can live when their >>>> integrity is attacked while they are committed). >>>> >>>> So I am happy to jump in Spreadsheet and discuss compensations, but if >>>> we are to do it, let's at the very least do it with a benevolent approach >>>> and minding the people whose job is talked about. >>>> >>>> Just a bit of empathy and care goes a long way :) >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 15:20, Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Correction: >>>>> >>>>> The 2016 base salary figure for Lisa in my previous mail should have >>>>> read $209,706, not $192,018. >>>>> >>>>> Andreas >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:55 PM Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Chris, >>>>>> >>>>>> All the numbers are taken from the official Form 990s filed. You can >>>>>> verify them for yourself here: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703 >>>>>> >>>>>> There is also a table of top-earners' base salaries on Meta, with >>>>>> data taken from the Form 990: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries >>>>>> >>>>>> Have a look. They show various individuals' salaries increasing by >>>>>> remarkable amounts in recent years. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaime Villagomez' base salary for example increased by more than >>>>>> $50,000 in three years, from $237,665 in 2016 to $289,356 in 2019. >>>>>> >>>>>> Toby Negrin's base salary increased by more than $45,000 over the >>>>>> same time period (from $192,018 to $237,992). >>>>>> >>>>>> Lisa Seitz-Gruwell's base salary increased by more than $40,000 over >>>>>> that period (from $192,018 to $252,117). >>>>>> >>>>>> These are all base salaries, excluding "other compensation", which >>>>>> adds another $34K, $33K and $21K to the salary figures for these three >>>>>> individuals, respectively. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find the above figures on Page 7 of the following forms: >>>>>> >>>>>> The 2016 Form 990 is here: >>>>>> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/201821349349310527/full >>>>>> The 2019 Form 990 is here: >>>>>> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/202101319349300105/full >>>>>> >>>>>> In 2008, only three people at the WMF earned more than $100,000: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/200049703/2010_05_EO%2F20-0049703_990_200906 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In 2019, it was (at least) 165. >>>>>> >>>>>> Andreas >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:44 AM Chris Keating < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 00:45 Nathan, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, >>>>>>>> if any? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> According to Andreas's table there were 72 total employees. How many >>>>>>> were full time? Pass! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But his numbers make little sense, so it's hard to draw conclusions >>>>>>> from them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/TKBR7ZKF74WWTJNQH3Y7JDPL522UV5CA/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/ON6R2B63ONQWELIZTUHCFOJ6P4UAWFI6/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/QWF54OHJRSXDCNLO3G2FVFNP3OHDPT7W/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/HLXMO7U2HGIYYLZ347ELBTAZXPGEM4MU/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/5JO3OOAX3EOMHPR47Q7EGPOVJ5PFI3MW/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/AX5TZJEXXTRX6WSZVI7CEOJYRHVKDJ5A/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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