Has Limesurvey been patched since? (asking as I see it widely used among some very ethical and tech literate projects)
On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 8:52 AM Asaf Bartov <[email protected]> wrote: > That tool was Limesurvey. > > A. > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2021, 08:59 Philippe Beaudette <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I would also like to add a bit of historical context. Many years ago, >> when I worked at the WMF, we were using a FLOSS survey tool (I don't recall >> which). We were fairly dependent on it, when one day someone discovered >> that it was vulnerable to sql injection attacks and Tim Starling (I >> believe) rightly killed it on our servers. Shortly after that, we moved >> toward using a non-free tool that was safer and more robust. I dont recall >> that the two events were connected, but I would be surprised if they >> weren't. >> >> Tim did the right thing then, even though it meant that we were moved off >> a FLOSS solution. Sometimes "Free" just isn't equal, or better. Sometimes >> it's an actual honest-to-god security risk and there are reasons why >> WMF's staff aren't using a free alternative to a proprietary tool. Did >> anyone ask? >> >> Philippe >> >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 12:13 AM Risker <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> To clarify to anyone who doesn't want to read the actual proposal, which >>> Fae did not repeat here: >>> >>> *Proposal* >>> >>> It is proposed that on Wikimedia Commons that there must be no promotion >>> of surveys or questionnaires which rely on third party sites and closed >>> source tools, such as Google Forms. This should be interpreted as a ban >>> against engaging volunteers by mass messaging, use of banners or posts on >>> noticeboards. >>> *Recommended consequential action* >>> >>> Banners and posts which go against this proposal may be removed by >>> anyone. >>> >>> Posting account(s) may be blocked or have group rights removed at the >>> discretion of administrators, such as all rights that enable mass >>> messaging. In a persistent case, blocks and rights removal may apply to all >>> accounts of the person responsible. A rationale of doing their job as >>> part of being a WMF employee is not considered an exemption. >>> >>> >>> Now....this applies to everyone who posts about a survey at Wikimedia >>> Commons, as this proposal is strictly related to Commons. It is not a >>> global proposal. However, it would apply to researchers, to WMF staff, to >>> anyone who uses closed-sourced tools. There is no suggestion at all about >>> suitable alternative tools. In fact, there is a severe dearth of quality >>> open source tools. Researchers may be bound by their facilities to use >>> certain types of tools. >>> >>> Surveys and questionnaires are always voluntary. There's some >>> responsibility on the part of the user to read the privacy statements and >>> use of information statements that are normally mandatory for any >>> legitimate surveys. More than once I've started to participate in a survey >>> and decided it was asking questions I didn't want to answer, and just never >>> saved them. >>> >>> >>> I think it would also be helpful if someone from WMF Technical could >>> take the time to discuss with the broader community what arrangements have >>> been made in their contract with Google to ensure that the information on >>> those documents (of whatever nature) are not in fact accessible to Google >>> for their data gathering or any other purposes. There is, of course, a >>> certain irony that three of the four people who have commented on this >>> thread so far all have Gmail email addresses. >>> >>> >>> Risker/Anne >>> >>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 00:24, Gnangarra <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I agree with Fae's proposal if we are using tools that >>>> exclude community members out of safety and privacy concerns then we arent >>>> fulfilling the equity goals. I also recognise that alternatives need to be >>>> available but with no incentive for them to be used then there is no >>>> development of such tools, or improvements to their functionality. Faes >>>> proposal is putting the WMF on notice that there are steps we need to take >>>> to ensure equity, safety, and privacy in participation. >>>> >>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at 09:08, Łukasz Garczewski < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> With respect, Fae, if you're going to propose banning an existing >>>>> solution, it is on you to propose a suitable alternative or at least a >>>>> process to find it before the ban takes effect. >>>>> >>>>> I write this as a signatory of Free Software Foundation Europe's Public >>>>> Money? Public Code open letter <https://publiccode.eu/openletter/>. I >>>>> am wholeheartedly a proponent of open source software. >>>>> >>>>> At the same time, I am a firm believer in using the best available >>>>> tool for the job. >>>>> >>>>> Our mission is too important to hold ourselves back at every step due >>>>> to a noble but often unrealistic wish to use open source solutions for >>>>> everything we do. >>>>> >>>>> Last year, because of my drive to use proper open source solutions, >>>>> WMPL wasted hours and hours of staff time (mostly mine) and a not >>>>> insignificant amount of members' time because: >>>>> >>>>> - Zeus, a widely used, cryptographically secure voting system is >>>>> impossible to setup and maintain and has very sparse documentation, >>>>> - CiviCRM, the premier open source CRM solution for NGOs, refuses >>>>> to work correctly after the Wordpress installation is moved to a new >>>>> URL, >>>>> and documentation isn't helpful. >>>>> >>>>> To my knowledge there are no suitable open source options that would >>>>> be easy-to-use and robust enough to support our needs in both cases and be >>>>> comparable to commercial counterparts. >>>>> >>>>> I have wasted a ton of time (and therefore WMPL money), before I >>>>> decided to use state-of-the-art commercial solutions for the needs >>>>> described above. Don't be like me. Don't make other people think & act >>>>> like >>>>> I did. Be smarter. >>>>> >>>>> Should we use an *equivalent* open source solution when one is >>>>> available? Yes. >>>>> Should we have a public list of open source tools needed? Yes. >>>>> Should we use programmes such as Google Summer of Code to build those >>>>> tools? Yes. >>>>> >>>>> Should we waste time using sub-par solutions or doing work manually? >>>>> Hell no. >>>>> >>>>> *So here's a constructive alternative idea:* >>>>> >>>>> - Let's gather the needs and use cases for tools used by WMF and >>>>> affiliates, >>>>> - Let's build a list of potential open source replacements and map >>>>> what features are missing, >>>>> - Let's put the word out that we're looking for open source >>>>> replacements where there are none available, >>>>> - Let's embed Wikimedia liaisons in key open source projects to >>>>> ensure our needs and use cases are addressed promptly, >>>>> - Let's use initiatives such as Summer of Code to kickstart >>>>> building some of these tools. >>>>> >>>>> I acknowledge the above is much harder to do than instituting a ban >>>>> via community consensus. It is, however, a much more productive approach >>>>> and will get us to your desired state eventually, and without sabotaging >>>>> the work that needs to happen in the meantime. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and in case anybody's wondering why we can't build these tools >>>>> in-house: >>>>> >>>>> We could but really, really shouldn't. MediaWiki and the wider >>>>> Wikimedia tech infrastructure is still in need of huge improvements. It >>>>> would be really unwise to distract WMF's development and product teams >>>>> from >>>>> these goals by requesting they build standard communication or reporting >>>>> tools. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 4:42 PM Fæ <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As a consequence of the promotion of a Google forms based survey this >>>>>> week by a WMF representative, a proposal on Wikimedia Commons has been >>>>>> started to ban the promotion of surveys which rely on third party >>>>>> sites like Google Forms.[1] >>>>>> >>>>>> Launched today, but already it appears likely that this proposal will >>>>>> have a consensus to support. Considering that Commons is one of our >>>>>> largest Wikimedia projects, there are potential repercussions of >>>>>> banning the on-wiki promotion of surveys which use Google products or >>>>>> other closed source third party products like SurveyMonkey. >>>>>> >>>>>> Feedback is most welcome on the proposal discussion, or on this list >>>>>> for handling impact, solutions, recommended alternatives that already >>>>>> exist, or the future role of the WMF to support research and surveys >>>>>> for the WMF and affiliates by using forking open source software and >>>>>> self-hosting and self-managing data "locally". >>>>>> >>>>>> Links >>>>>> 1. >>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Proposals#Use_of_off-wiki_surveys_using_third-party_tools >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Fae >>>>>> -- >>>>>> [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae >>>>>> #WearAMask >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Z poważaniem · Kind regards >>>>> >>>>> Łukasz Garczewski >>>>> >>>>> Dyrektor ds. operacyjnych · Chief Operating Officer >>>>> >>>>> Wikimedia Polska >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> tel: +48 601 827 937 >>>>> >>>>> e-mail: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> <http://wikimedia.pl> >>>>> >>>>> Wesprzyj wolną wiedzę! >>>>> Przekaż 1% podatku lub wpłać darowiznę na rzecz Wikipedii >>>>> <https://wikimedia.pl/> >>>>> >>>>> ul. Tuwima 95, pok. 15 Łódź, Polska >>>>> >>>>> KRS 0000244732 >>>>> >>>>> NIP 728-25-97-388 >>>>> >>>>> wikimedia.pl >>>>> >>>>> Informacje na temat przetwarzania znajdują się w Polityce Prywatności >>>>> <https://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Polityka_prywatno%C5%9Bci>. Kontakt: >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GN. >>>> >>>> *Power of Diverse Collaboration* >>>> *Sharing knowledge brings people together* >>>> Wikimania Bangkok 2022 >>>> August >>>> hosted by ESEAP >>>> >>>> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra >>>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page >>>> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >
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