What exactly has the English Wikipedia accepted? As far as I know we don't known on what the WMF thinks they failed. It is just speculation and personal opinions.
Paulo A quinta, 4 de jul de 2019, 10:11, Gerard Meijssen < [email protected]> escreveu: > Hoi, > I am astounded that you write as if the WMF is at fault in this. What I > find is that in stead of pointing to the WMF, it is first and foremost the > community of the English Wikipedia who accepted the unacceptable and > finally has to deal with consequences. True to form, no reflection on en.wp > practices and the blame is conveniently put elsewhere. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 10:48, Peter Southwood <[email protected] > > > wrote: > > > Gerard, > > Is your response to my email intended to have any relevance to my > > statement? If so please clarify. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > > Sent: 04 July 2019 09:59 > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block > > > > Hoi, > > The community is responsible for its actions. It is widely acknowledged > > that the English Wikipedia is a toxic environment. The community has not > > taken this on board, has not fixed the damage. At some stage an > inflection > > point exists where the community if forced to reflect. Sadly, the English > > Wikipedia has proven to be unable to get its house in order nor does it > > show reflection that give hope for a better future. > > Thanks, > > GerardM > > > > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 09:32, Peter Southwood < > [email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > The board does not manage WMF. It is not their fault when a department > > > does something stupid if they had no warning that it was likely to > > happen. > > > People who signed off on the ban decision may have reason to apologise, > > > others not. The board is responsible for ensuring that the damage is > > fixed > > > and taking reasonably practicable precautions for preventing a > > recurrence. > > > Due diligence is their duty, not exhaustive diligence or > micromanagement. > > > Cheers, Peter > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 10:29 PM > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block > > > > > > Hello Wikimedia-l colleagues, > > > > > > I hope that your day is going well. > > > > > > There are some updates regarding the topics that we are discussing in > > this > > > thread. I am writing this email in a personal capacity. > > > > > > As a reminder, the English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee published an > > > open letter on 30 June that was directed to the WMF Board > > > < > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram&diff=904149076&oldid=904147649 > > > >. > > > I will share a few quotes from that statement before providing some > > > updates, and finally making some personal comments. > > > > > > I am retaining the font styles that Arbcom used in its letter. > > > > > > * "As of 30 June, two bureaucrats, 18 administrators, an ArbCom clerk, > > and > > > a number of other editors have resigned their positions and/or retired > > from > > > Wikipedia editing in relation to this issue." > > > > > > * "If Fram’s ban—an unappealable sanction issued from above with no > > > community consultation—represents the WMF’s new strategy for dealing > with > > > harassment on the English Wikipedia, it is one that is fundamentally > > > misaligned with the Wikimedia movement’s principles of openness, > > consensus, > > > and self-governance." > > > > > > * "*We ask that the WMF commits to leaving behavioural complaints > > > pertaining solely to the English Wikipedia to established local > > processes.* > > > Those unsuitable for public discussion should be referred to the > > > Arbitration Committee. We will solicit comment from the community and > the > > > WMF to develop clear procedures for dealing with confidential > allegations > > > of harassment, based on the existing provision for private hearings in > > the > > > arbitration policy. Complaints that can be discussed publicly should be > > > referred to an appropriate community dispute resolution process. If the > > > Trust & Safety team seeks to assume responsibility for these cases, > they > > > should do so by proposing an amendment to the arbitration policy, or an > > > equivalent process of community consensus-building. Otherwise, we would > > > appreciate the WMF’s continued support in improving our response to > > > harassment and hostility on the English Wikipedia > > > > > > * "We feel strongly that this commitment is necessary for the > Arbitration > > > Committee to continue to perform the role it is assigned by the English > > > Wikipedia community. If we are unable to find a satisfactory > resolution, > > at > > > least four members of the committee have expressed the intention to > > > resign." > > > > > > The following are more recent updates. > > > > > > * The WMF Board has made a statement > > > < > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram&diff=904552644&oldid=904551569 > > > > > > > > > > * The WMF Executive Director (Katherine Maher) has also made a > statement > > > < > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Katherine_(WMF)&diff=904607134&oldid=904605950 > > > > > > > . > > > > > > My personal comments follow. > > > > > > I appreciate the WMF Executive Director's statement. I think that her > > > statement is a good starting point for further communications between > the > > > staff and the community, particularly the English Wikipedia community. > > > > > > I was hoping for a statement from the WMF Board that was humble and > > > apologetic regarding recent disruption that has stressed many people in > > the > > > community, led to numerous resignations, and consumed countless hours > of > > > volunteers' valuable time. Perhaps I overlooked them, but I do not see > > the > > > words "apology", "sorry", "regret", or similar words in the statement > > from > > > the WMF Board. > > > > > > In addition to an apology, I was hoping to see the WMF Board focus on > > > supervising the WMF organization, which I think is its principal job. > > > > > > I feel that this statement is condescending: "We believe that the > > > communities should be able to deal with these types of situations and > > > should take this as a wake-up call to improve our enforcement processes > > to > > > deal with so-called "unblockables"." I think that many of us in the > > > communities are aware of these problems. I do not appreciate WMF > creating > > > unnecessary and widely harmful disruption in its quest to do top-down > > > social engineering. I encourage the WMF Board to develop humility, > > refrain > > > from lecturing the communities, and consider how to support the > > communities > > > in our efforts to improve ourselves. > > > > > > I would encourage the WMF Board to ponder the harms that have resulted > > from > > > WMF's actions. I hope that we see a public apology from the WMF Board. > > > > > > Katherine, thank you for your willingness to have a dialogue regarding > > > these matters, and your willingness to have a more cautious and > > respectful > > > approach in the future. > > > > > > Writing solely in a personal capacity, > > > > > > Pine > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > https://www.avg.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
