What exactly has the English Wikipedia accepted? As far as I know we don't
known on what the WMF thinks they failed. It is just speculation and
personal opinions.

Paulo

A quinta, 4 de jul de 2019, 10:11, Gerard Meijssen <
[email protected]> escreveu:

> Hoi,
> I am astounded that you write as if the WMF is at fault in this. What I
> find is that in stead of pointing to the WMF, it is first and foremost the
> community of the English Wikipedia who accepted the unacceptable and
> finally has to deal with consequences. True to form, no reflection on en.wp
> practices and the blame is conveniently put elsewhere.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 10:48, Peter Southwood <[email protected]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Gerard,
> > Is your response to my email intended to have any relevance to my
> > statement? If so please clarify.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: 04 July 2019 09:59
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
> >
> > Hoi,
> > The community is responsible for its actions. It is widely acknowledged
> > that the English Wikipedia is a toxic environment. The community has not
> > taken this on board, has not fixed the damage. At some stage an
> inflection
> > point exists where the community if forced to reflect. Sadly, the English
> > Wikipedia has proven to be unable to get its house in order nor does it
> > show reflection that give hope for a better future.
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
> >
> > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 09:32, Peter Southwood <
> [email protected]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The board does not manage WMF. It is not their fault when a department
> > > does something stupid if they had no warning that it was likely to
> > happen.
> > > People who signed off on the ban decision may have reason to apologise,
> > > others not.  The board is responsible for ensuring that the damage is
> > fixed
> > > and taking reasonably practicable precautions for preventing a
> > recurrence.
> > > Due diligence is their duty, not exhaustive diligence or
> micromanagement.
> > > Cheers, Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 10:29 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
> > >
> > >  Hello Wikimedia-l colleagues,
> > >
> > > I hope that your day is going well.
> > >
> > > There are some updates regarding the topics that we are discussing in
> > this
> > > thread. I am writing this email in a personal capacity.
> > >
> > > As a reminder, the English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee published an
> > > open letter on 30 June that was directed to the WMF Board
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram&diff=904149076&oldid=904147649
> > > >.
> > > I will share a few quotes from that statement before providing some
> > > updates, and finally making some personal comments.
> > >
> > > I am retaining the font styles that Arbcom used in its letter.
> > >
> > > * "As of 30 June, two bureaucrats, 18 administrators, an ArbCom clerk,
> > and
> > > a number of other editors have resigned their positions and/or retired
> > from
> > > Wikipedia editing in relation to this issue."
> > >
> > > * "If Fram’s ban—an unappealable sanction issued from above with no
> > > community consultation—represents the WMF’s new strategy for dealing
> with
> > > harassment on the English Wikipedia, it is one that is fundamentally
> > > misaligned with the Wikimedia movement’s principles of openness,
> > consensus,
> > > and self-governance."
> > >
> > > * "*We ask that the WMF commits to leaving behavioural complaints
> > > pertaining solely to the English Wikipedia to established local
> > processes.*
> > > Those unsuitable for public discussion should be referred to the
> > > Arbitration Committee. We will solicit comment from the community and
> the
> > > WMF to develop clear procedures for dealing with confidential
> allegations
> > > of harassment, based on the existing provision for private hearings in
> > the
> > > arbitration policy. Complaints that can be discussed publicly should be
> > > referred to an appropriate community dispute resolution process. If the
> > > Trust & Safety team seeks to assume responsibility for these cases,
> they
> > > should do so by proposing an amendment to the arbitration policy, or an
> > > equivalent process of community consensus-building. Otherwise, we would
> > > appreciate the WMF’s continued support in improving our response to
> > > harassment and hostility on the English Wikipedia
> > >
> > > * "We feel strongly that this commitment is necessary for the
> Arbitration
> > > Committee to continue to perform the role it is assigned by the English
> > > Wikipedia community. If we are unable to find a satisfactory
> resolution,
> > at
> > > least four members of the committee have expressed the intention to
> > > resign."
> > >
> > > The following are more recent updates.
> > >
> > > * The WMF Board has made a statement
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram&diff=904552644&oldid=904551569
> > > >
> > >
> > > * The WMF Executive Director (Katherine Maher) has also made a
> statement
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Katherine_(WMF)&diff=904607134&oldid=904605950
> > > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > My personal comments follow.
> > >
> > > I appreciate the WMF Executive Director's statement. I think that her
> > > statement is a good starting point for further communications between
> the
> > > staff and the community, particularly the English Wikipedia community.
> > >
> > > I was hoping for a statement from the WMF Board that was humble and
> > > apologetic regarding recent disruption that has stressed many people in
> > the
> > > community, led to numerous resignations, and consumed countless hours
> of
> > > volunteers' valuable time. Perhaps I overlooked them, but I do not see
> > the
> > > words "apology", "sorry", "regret", or similar words in the statement
> > from
> > > the WMF Board.
> > >
> > > In addition to an apology, I was hoping to see the WMF Board focus on
> > > supervising the WMF organization, which I think is its principal job.
> > >
> > > I feel that this statement is condescending: "We believe that the
> > > communities should be able to deal with these types of situations and
> > > should take this as a wake-up call to improve our enforcement processes
> > to
> > > deal with so-called "unblockables"." I think that many of us in the
> > > communities are aware of these problems. I do not appreciate WMF
> creating
> > > unnecessary and widely harmful disruption in its quest to do top-down
> > > social engineering. I encourage the WMF Board to develop humility,
> > refrain
> > > from lecturing the communities, and consider how to support the
> > communities
> > > in our efforts to improve ourselves.
> > >
> > > I would encourage the WMF Board to ponder the harms that have resulted
> > from
> > > WMF's actions. I hope that we see a public apology from the WMF Board.
> > >
> > > Katherine, thank you for your willingness to have a dialogue regarding
> > > these matters, and your willingness to have a more cautious and
> > respectful
> > > approach in the future.
> > >
> > > Writing solely in a personal capacity,
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > _______________________________________________
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