I did one pass over the emails in the past two months and I don't see excessive (the way I understand the word) reminders and announcements except perhaps for Research Showcase. ;) If that is the only event that is triggering this conversation, the solution is easy: You can just tell me your feedback and I'll take it back to the team and we can most probably update the workflow on our end. (I have a sense that one email about that event to wikimedia-l is enough and reminders are not needed.)
If the conversation is about more than one event, yeah, perhaps we should discuss more. I like the idea of a separate announcement list but I'm also concerned about making ourselves too thin across many channels. Maybe we can have a norm that every announcement to wikimedia-l should have an [announcement] tag in the subject for people to easily filter out. I personally don't mind the intensity of announcements as the Mute button in my email client works effectively (as long as, as Lodewijk said, people don't start new threads.:) And while we're on the subject of emails: As a member of this list, what concerns me is the lack of diversity of voices in many instances and conversations. I would love to learn how we can change this and if one or more of you are up for helping prepare a survey to run on the list to learn more, please let me know. (This will be with my volunteer hat on. and I want to clarify that this needs to be coordinated with the list moderators.) Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Senior Research Scientist, Lead Wikimedia Foundation On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 4:30 AM Fæ <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Oct 2018 at 00:34, effe iets anders <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Hi Pine, > > > > I would also suggest not to get overly bureaucratic with this :) If the > > public meeting you refer to requires a large attendance, the 14 days makes > > sense for example - but I cannot recall many meetings of that style. > > Rather, most meetings are either scheduled taking the availability of > > participants in mind, or it is to get input (where it is more important to > > have a bunch of people show up, than to have everyone participate). > > > > Whether more than one reminder is excessive, is imho quite subjective. I > > appreciate most reminders, especially if they stick to the same thread. > > > > On a side note: are there any weekly meetings being announced on this list? > > Again, it highly depends on the topic, and whether the reminder may also > > contain more information. > > > > My point? Don't worry about it so much :) Be flexible with this, and go > > with the flow. People can figure this out quite well if they use their > > common sense without added bureaucracy. > > > > Lodewijk > > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:50 PM Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l, > > > > > > Keeping in mind the large numbers of subscribers on some Wikimedia email > > > lists, the endless valuable uses for the time of knowledgeable volunteer > > > Wikimedians, the significant financial costs for the time of many of the > > > staff and contractors on these mailing lists, and how packed calendars can > > > be, I propose that we implement a few social norms/guidelines for > > > Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l in particular. > > > > > > 1. When planning to have a one-time public meeting, announce it at least > > > 14 > > > days in advance to give everyone who might like to participate that much > > > lead time to clear space on their calendars. Rarely is a one-time public > > > meeting so urgent that it cannot wait 14 days from the day that it is > > > announced. > > > > > > 2. Send a maximum of one reminder email regarding a one-time public > > > meeting, and also send a maximum of one reminder email regarding events > > > with deadlines such as Wikimania scholarship submissions or conference > > > presentation proposals. More than one reminder about a meeting or deadline > > > is excessive. > > > > > > 3. If extending a deadline, send only an announcement of the extension > > > with > > > no additional reminder. > > > > > > 4. Send only one email to announce a recurring weekly meeting, with no > > > additional reminders. Meetings which recur less often, such as biweekly or > > > monthly, may continue to be announced with one additional reminder. > > > > > > At this time these are proposals only. Comments are welcome. If the > > > comments become extensive then I may request that we move the conversation > > > to Meta. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Pine > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > Completely agree that this is a real problem, and that solving it is a > positive change rather than a "bureaucratic" one. > > As a reminder for everyone who reads this list, it is defined as:[1] > Wikimedia Mailing List > Discussion list for the Wikimedia community and the larger network of > organizations (Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations, > affiliates, partners) supporting its work. > > Let's agree to draw the common-sense distinction between having a > *discussion* and one-way *broadcasting* announcements, PR statements > and thankspam. This list is not intended for any of the latter, and > filling subscriber's inboxes with announcements rather than > interesting contemporary discussion is damaging this list and reduces > its subscriber base. This is probably a significant part of why > subscription and community engagement has been seriously dropping off > over the last few years. > > I propose that we create a movement wide announcements list > (wikimedia-announcements) that is intended for broadcasting, rather > than discussion, and this list can be kept for discussion. If people > feel they need to send three announcements/reminders/changes for the > same meeting, then that can be okay on the announcements list, and > should be called out as misuse, or even hijacking, for this discussion > list. A simple change, and for those that wish to follow > announcements, makes it easy for them to be automatically filtered. > > Links > 1. https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > Thanks, > Fae > -- > [email protected] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
