Are there any Cebuano or Waray community members on the list to offer an opinion? On 6 Jul 2015 23:47, "Ziko van Dijk" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello, > > I belong to the group of Josh and Ilario and others who have strong > objections against the inundation of "pseudo articles" (one > sentence-articles, bot creations based on database information etc.). > > The people who justify their bot creations make two wrong assumptions: > a) about the contributors: "Later, someone will come and improve the > stubs." No, that is not true, at least not in the large majority of the > language versions, and not within the 5 or 10 years we have experience with > this phenomenon. > b) about the readers: "No article is better than none." No, bad articles > create a poor impression about a wiki. If you lure someone to your website, > because Google indicated an article about a topic, and if the article is > far from the expections, you don't give readers a reason to come back. > They'll keep preferring Wikipedia in English. > > I can imagine that bot articles about your own topics can make sence: like > Frisian villages in Frisian Wikipedia (but certainly not Hungarian villages > in Basque Wikipedia). There is a realistic chance that those articles will > be expanded. > > In general, if a Wikipedia language version does not have an article about > a peticular village in a far far away country, or a star in a far far > galaxy, then the reader should be sent to Wikidata or Reasonator. > > A friend of mine is an expert on the Corsican language. He told me about > Corsican Wikipedia: All those mini articles on French or Italian villages, > that's nonsense. Those Wikipedians should better concentrate on > important articles such as "History of Corsica" or "Corsican > literature", they are still very poorly written. (This was in a > conversation from a few years ago, I apologize if the situation is > different now.) > > Kind regards > Ziko > > > Am Montag, 6. Juli 2015 schrieb Asaf Bartov : > > > Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived > or > > reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active > > editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs. Is having > stubs > > on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano? > > Probably, yes. And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one > > increases the likelihood of "organic" conversion of readers into editors > > (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not > > the easiest to directly control). > > > > But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be > > attained. The Waray Wikipedia (btw, "Waray-Waray" is, it turns out, > > objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still > largely > > edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats > plainly > > show. Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be > no > > objection to its operation. > > > > As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those > > Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view. This should be divorced from > > those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot. If the > > top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus > that > > Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs "should" not be > > included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean, > > precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count. And > > whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a > minimum > > number of active editors, or some formula involving the "article depth" > > figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed, > > for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are > > displeased with being "under" these Wikipedias on the list. > > > > A. > > > > [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim <[email protected] > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > I can probably speak for those communities. On the whole, the logic > > > behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come. > > > > > > So far though, this hasn’t happened. We from the Tagalog Wikipedia > were > > > also approached for this experiment, but we know what happens when > > > bot-generated articles are made: the community is overwhelmed. Out of > > that > > > fear, we declined to participate. > > > > > > One of the concerns some editors in the Philippines have (and these are > > > sentiments I share) is that these two Wikipedias turn us into a > > > laughingstock, willing to increase article numbers at any cost. At one > > > point, the Cebuano Wikipedia was described as a Wikipedia of French > > > communes, not content relevant to Cebu or Cebuanos. I don’t think we’d > > > like that with other Wikipedias in the Philippines or elsewhere. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > > Wiadomość napisana przez WereSpielChequers < > > [email protected] <javascript:;>> > > > w dniu 6 lip 2015, o godz. 04:52: > > > > > > > > These are fascinating experiments, I hope that the Waray-waray and > > > Cebuano > > > > communities will at some point report back to the wider community as > to > > > how > > > > this worked out. My fear is that too fast a growth rate could > overwhelm > > > > whatever community we have in those languages leading to burn out of > > > > existing editors dealing with too many newbies at once, my suspicion > is > > > > that this will vary by language depending on such variables as the > > ratio > > > of > > > > PC users to smartphone users, and the ease with which editors can > > access > > > > the necessary character sets. > > > > > > > > We have long known that bot creation of stubs that are of interest to > > > > speakers of a language is a way to recruit readers, and that some > > readers > > > > become editors. What I think we don't yet know is the maximum growth > > rate > > > > that a wiki community can cope with. > > > > > > > > There is also a sustainability angle, though hopefully we can > mitigate > > > that > > > > by bot replacing of articles where the source has changed but they > > > haven't > > > > been edited on the Cebuano or Waray-waray Wikipedias. Otherwise > within > > a > > > > decade we could have pedias that look very dated, for example various > > > > record holders whose articles in other languages show their records > > have > > > > been surpassed, and villages > > > > > > > > WereSpielChequers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;> > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM > > > Bachelor of Arts in Political Science > > > Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University > > > Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> <mailto: > [email protected] > > <javascript:;>> | +63 (915) > > > 321-7582 > > > Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor > > > http://about.me/josh.lim <http://about.me/josh.lim> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;> > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Asaf Bartov > > Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org> > > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the > > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! > > https://donate.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;> > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
