On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Eddy Paine <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello, > First of all I was asked to take a look at the following case. I found it > very strange how people behave against other people and I would like to > write about it and ask opinions. I'm sure this is not only for this user > but there are more users like this. > I understand that its needed for people to block users when the > encyclopedia or the project is in danger, but where do will place the > border? I think destroying people or behaving against people like I will > describe below is also endangering the project. We should all remember that > we are humans and not robots and everybody makes mistakes. Therefor I am > sure that there was behavior that was totally wrong, but the way the whole > international community decided to handle it was wrong also. > First of all we have a policy against socks. In that policy we describe > that its not right to edit with two accounts at the same time or working > together with 2 accounts to get something done. Secondly its not right to > use new accounts to evade blocks. Lastly bot accounts are not seen as socks > neither are old and unused accounts. Besides that we have a policy in place > that says that people are free to leave the project or abandon a username > and continue with a new name. This I guess is for protecting the project > and protecting the people that work on it. > Now to get to my case. On 3 July on Meta a attack started against a former > Dutch Wikipedia user. This attack was mainly started by people of the Dutch > Wikipedia. The same people that are willing to destroy this user. ( > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Abigor) now before > you all click away this message hear me out and give me opinions. This is > now almost two years ago and a good moment to look back. If I am wrong > please point me to that and lets keep a good talk instead of going all > "don't waste our time". > In this case there was a big list of names that where socks and this > "sockmaster" needed to be blocked. But when we look at our policies and on > that list we see the following: > Abigor (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) - thats meAbiBot > (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) No sock its a bot, only > did bot editsAbiBot.nl.wiki (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • > CA) No sock its a bot, only did bot editsAbibot (talk • contribs • block • > SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) (renamed to AbiBot[2], self acknowledged)Huib (talk > • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) Created on request by meta > communety en en.wiki communety, because I sign with Huib while I'm > abigor... Its points to my abigor account and its created to protect my own > account. Execpt for the rename edits, it didn't edit at all.Huib (old) > (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) Did a rename request to > get Huib free..Sterkebak (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) > old account... on my userpage is a note that I used to use that > oneSterkeBak (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) old > account... on my userpage is a note that I used to use that oneSterkebot > (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) No sock its a bot, only > did bot editsSterkeBot (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) > (renamed from Sterkebot[3][4] and later renamed to AbiBot[5][6])P.J.L > Laurens (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) - Its a account > created for my uploads, it has a different userpage on Commons with > information about me as photographer. Didn't do any edits just created for > the userpage and information. All my uploads are pointed to this one with a > link.WikiLinkBot (talk • contribs • block • SULinfo • x-wiki • CA) No sock > its a bot. Only editted on nl.wiki to let its userpage be removed, the > dutch admins didn't want to remove the page.This list is ctrl C Ctrl V from > Meta. > Now go to the policy: > Abigor is the account of the user. Than we have AbiBot, AbiBot.nl.Wiki and > Abibot sterkebot SterkeBot as bot accounts. According to the policy > accounts used by a bot without human edits are not socks. Huib and Huib > (old) Sterkbak SterkeBak P.J.L Laurens. All those names are old accounts > without overlapping edits so according to the policy its not socking. Some > accounts doesn't have edits at all but where only there to redirect. > WikiLinkBot is intresting cause its now in use by a other user. This user > is also the source for the blocking on the Dutch Wikipedia. Abigor would > have placed personal attacks against this user and now the user is having > that accounts. Very intresting don't you think. > Then we get a bunch of accounts: > Accounts with only a few edits and no CU results where linked to this > users. I strongly believe that we should have proof before pointing > something out and say "hey it was you". But the account where I want to > speak about is Delay. We have the policy that says that you can start right > over with a new account. But still a Foundation employee confirms a link > between the Delay Account and the Abigor account something CU didn't do at > start. So we have a policy, but the policy doesn't work for some people? > The coolest thing here is that we block him for disrupting a project. Or > disrupting multiple projects, but every account used on the Wikipedia did > get a barnstar for good work. Since when do we give vandals barnstars? Or > since when do we block people doing good work? > So in this case one of the accounts that pointed to him is now in use by > the user requesting Abigor to get blocked. There are a bunch of account > creations that are never clearly linked to the user. Its linked by Abigor > was on Wikimania so he have done the actions. And after that we decided to > TELL all communities where he was active that he is a danger. > So tell me, why doesn't get this user the change to start over like many > others did. Many people have more accounts, or old accounts and why don't > do they get blocked and most off all why do we keep hunting him down when > there is clear proof that he is doing good work (a.k.a barnstars). Where do > we draw the line between protecting a community or scaring people off? > Ed > > > From my experience with Abigor on the various mailinglists, I would say that Abigor probably has the best intentions with the project. Therefore enabling him to edit should be the premise. This is the first time I actually looked in to this issue, though it has come up plenty on the mailinglist, and I come to the following conclusions: * He has shown he is willing to violate the privacy of others under circumstances * He has shown he is willing to personally attack others under circumstances * He has shown he is willing to violate copyright * He has shown he is willing to abuse a position of trust to further his own opinions or positions on wiki * He has shown he is willing to attempt to deceive the community in an attempt to get away with the above * He has shown a general tendency to not get the point and either continuing disruptive behaviour or finding new was to behave disruptively * He has shown to be vindictive and willing to damage the project(s), not to mention his fellow editors when he is angry * He has shown us and told us that when he is angry he will lash out, even if he doesn't mean it, which doesn't bode well for the future * He has exhausted most any community members willingness to discuss things by deception and rule lawyering * He has proven to be unfit to be a member of the editing community I don't care if we have policy about this or how it's worded or whether or not there is wiggle room there: Abigor the person is not welcome to edit, should not edit, and should be blocked under any account. That's a bloody shame, because he seems to have the best intentions. I strongly suggest dropping the suggestion that Abigor the person should be welcome to edit, as I suspect that the more arguments people will come forward with the more painful to him it will be, and I can't conceive any positive outcome for him in this discussion. > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
