Guys, can you please take any discussion among you white males to Wikimedia-l if you still feel the need to discuss this amongst you? You can't force a public debate, especially wheb Asaf and Lilli have already stated the obvious.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 08:39 Ilario Valdelli, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > > I comment here because this reply is important and I agree with it but I > would also stress that 75% of the women being harassed probably are in > position where someone takes an advantage of his position to create around > these women a forced silence and the possibility of blackmail. But it’s not > the case that started this thread. > > > > To use correctly the statistics, the numbers must be understood correctly > because the Fundamental Rights Agency is reporting about “women in > qualified professions or top management” and it means in an uncomfortable > position. > > > > In all this discussion what strikes me is the exaggerated reaction of both > parties. > > > > The use of the safe space policy is good and is welcome but this policy > has a value where it’s applied in a correct way and there is not an > exaggerated use. > > > > And yes, “exaggeration” is what I would stress now in the wikiverse. > > > > I already said that probably it would have been sufficient to ask “kindly” > to don’t be touched and to use an escalation or to use the safe space > policy when this behavior would have been recurrent and constant after this > first warning. > > > > I suggest to don’t exaggerate because if we would solve a discrimination > introducing discrimination, or we would look at this case as an example of > inappropriate behavior on women probably we have to look to the history of > the wolf and the lamb of Esopo. > > > > The principle of the safe space policy is good and it has been created > mainly to protect the freedom of opinion, but I suggest to take care to > don’t introduce the difference of gender or of race or of religion etc. > Because every time we gives an advantage or a disadvantage to someone using > these categories, there is always a part which is discriminated. > > > > Kind regards > > > > -- > Ilario Valdelli > Wikimedia CH > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich > Wikipedia: Ilario > Skype: valdelli > Tel: +41764821371 > http://www.wikimedia.ch > > > > *From: *Lilli Iliev <[email protected]> > *Sent: *29 July 2018 19:05 > *To: *[email protected] > *Subject: *[Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news) > > > > Hi all, > > > > I decided to contribute to this thread, however not in order to elaborate > on my personal opinion on this specific case. This would be inappropriate, > as we do not have sufficient information about it and also out of respect > for the people involved. > > > > Instead, I want to comment, because I feel strongly about the consequences > this discussion may have - not only on the perception of the friendly space > policy and its effectiveness, but also on people who may need to refer to > the policy in the future. > > > > This past Wikimania was very much about the importance of representing all > people in our movement and about finding ways for them to have a voice, to > be heard – and to feel safe to contribute and participate. > > > > One reliable way to silence people when they experience harassment as well > as keeping others from speaking out, is to have them experience how other, > non-involved people, would immediately have an opinion on what happened and > judge the case or the person in question. This is what has happened here. > It is furthermore, absolutely out of proportion to weigh ones personal > irritation about some members being potentially more aware and sensitive of > this topic, against a context in which harassment and violence is not the > exception, but everyday reality. > > > > Policies and measures like codes of conduct etc. exist for a reason. > Invisible to many, harassment does happen, it happens a lot, it happens > also amongst communities with great, humanitarian goals. In the world most > of us live in, offensive or invasive behavior has no tangible consequences > for those who commit it, but severe effects on those who experience it. > According to the Fundamental Rights Agency, 75% of women in qualified > professions or top management jobs have been sexually harassed[1]. UN Women > has confirmed that there is a big problem with underreporting when it comes > to these cases. > > Efforts like the friendly space policies aim to contribute to establish a > societal climate where people feel safe and that makes all people aware, > that inappropriate behavior has consequences. > > > > Publicly judging and ridiculing efforts to find a process, suitable to > make all people feel safe, heard, and, if necessary, taken seriously at > events, can set back efforts of creating such a process. Measures like > friendly space policies are not self-evident, they are an hard fought for > achievement. Seeing, how fast those efforts are being called into question, > is quite disheartening and worries me a lot. > > > > I am very grateful to work for and with a movement that has agreed on > trying to make all people feel welcome and respected. I hope that we will > keep fostering this together. > > > > best > > Lilli > > > > [1] http://www.equineteurope.org/IMG/pdf/fra_9dec2014.pdf > > > > -- > > Lilli Iliev > > > Projektmanagerin Politik > > project manager public policy > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 > http://wikimedia.de > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/ > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207 > > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > Mail > priva di virus. www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > <#m_5358394905228150261_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >
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