Harry, Since Wikimania-L is relatively low traffic, I believe it’s entirely on-topic to discuss the support of Wikimania by chapters as long as it doesn’t get too long winded. Plus, doesn’t Wikimedia-L get enough conflict as it is? :)
Thanks. -Andrew -Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: [email protected] WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 4:25 AM, Harry Mitchell <[email protected]> wrote: > Can we argue about who signed what on Wikimedia-l or some other forum > please? We get bogged down in enough silly arguments about Wikimania on > this list, never mind silly arguments about governance of participants in > silly arguments. > > Harry Mitchell > http://enwp.org/User:HJ > +44 (0) 7507 536 971 > Skype: harry_j_mitchell > > On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 4:33 AM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you. I find it confusing that the letter starts with "The >> chairpersons of the Wikimedia chapters state that Wikimania needs to be >> arranged every year," which implies that all of the chapter chairs are >> united in agreement, but it appears several chapters didn't sign the >> letter. Looking further at the content of the letter, I would have some >> questions about some of the statements that were made there. In the future, >> I would encourage chapter chairs to have discussions about matters such as >> this on the Affiliates mailing list so that we can have more inclusive >> discussions among more affiliates before sending letters like that. The >> Wikimania situation is already convoluted, and I believe that letters such >> as this should get fuller discussion among affiliates before they are sent >> to WMF. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pine >> On Jul 8, 2016 20:04, "Christophe Henner" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> My bad I forgot it already is on meta >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/Statements/Chapter_chairs_statement:_Wikimania_needs_to_be_arranged_every_year >>> Le 9 juil. 2016 4:50 AM, "Pine W" <[email protected]> a écrit : >>> >>> Thanks Christophe. I, for one, have had difficulty figuring out what is >>> going on with Wikimania in regards to varying decisions in different parts >>> of WMF and the community, so I look forward to the clarifications. >>> >>> Personally I am currently neutral on the decision of whether to have >>> annual Wikimanias, or alternate Wikimanias with years in which there is >>> emphasis on national or regional conferences. My hunch is that some >>> research about costs and benefits is needed so that we have reliable data >>> about a variety of scenarios before making a decision. >>> >>> Thanks again for working on this. >>> >>> To the board chairs: I would be interested in seeing that letter. In the >>> spirit of transparency, would you please publish it on Meta? As you know I >>> am an advocate for much more transparency from WMF, and I would like for >>> the affiliates to also to be transparent about governance matters such as >>> this one. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Pine >>> On Jul 8, 2016 19:18, "Christophe Henner" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> The same question was raised to the board a few days ago by chairs of >>>> Wikimedia organizations asking Foundation's board to make sure there's a >>>> comprehensive decision on this very topic. >>>> >>>> The chairs letter wasn't public, I let them share it on meta or here if >>>> they want to :) >>>> >>>> First step, in my opinion, is to set expectations and define the scope >>>> (in the role of the event but also in the ressources (both human and >>>> financial) we commit to the event. >>>> >>>> Katherine is working with the staff to provide groundings. >>>> >>>> Here is the answer I provided them with. >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> Hi chairs! >>>> >>>> First of all, thank you with the email, the feedback is clearly useful >>>> and raises interesting point. >>>> >>>> Now, the Wikimania discussion definitly is on the table. Living by what >>>> we said during Wikimania, we, as WMF, will make sure we end up with a clear >>>> answer to your questions but also to the different points you raise. >>>> >>>> Wikimania is an important time in our movement, but as you said it also >>>> comes with costs and challenges that we have to adress. Katherine is going >>>> to meet in the coming days with the staff in charge of that topic to start >>>> that discussion within WMF and provide groundings for a comprehensive >>>> decision. >>>> >>>> We will try to be as diligent as possible on that topic, but I would >>>> ask you to keep in mind that as we're in a transition phase and that might >>>> take a little more time than you could expect. >>>> >>>> Again thank you for your email, I love the fact that he raises issues >>>> but also includes the challenges we have to take care of :) >>>> >>>> We'll get back to you as soon as possible to continue that discussion. >>>> >>>> Have all a really great day / night :) >>>> >>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> While I concur with Coren’s conclusion, I’ll try to neutrally report on >>>> the events at Wikimania which led to this result. :) >>>> >>>> Full disclosure: I’m a fan of Wikimania being yearly, and was asked to >>>> serve on the Wikimania Committee after Esino Lario. I was also the main >>>> moderator of the Wikimania 2016 session on the “Future of Wikimania.” These >>>> views are my own, and not anything official from the committee. >>>> >>>> Background: Many folks (I’d say a majority) who I talked to in Esino >>>> Lario early in the conference thought that the decision to do Wikimania >>>> every other year was a done deal, as a result of the IdeaLab consultation. >>>> I told them that might not necessarily be so. The vote was close, not >>>> particularly widely known, and we could still be heard. Chris Schilling >>>> from the WMF, who oversaw the Idealab consultation, sought me out >>>> specifically at the start of the conference and to my delight, said that >>>> the consultation was “just another data point,” and that it was by no means >>>> the final word on things. Obviously, this was good news to people who were >>>> interested in keeping a yearly Wikimania. >>>> >>>> I was scheduled to moderate the “Future of Wikimania” discussion >>>> session [1] at the very end of the conference, and encouraged people to let >>>> their views be heard. It was under these conditions that we entered into >>>> the final discussion room and I asked Chris Schilling to give an opening >>>> statement to the room. Most people were happy to hear him say that it was >>>> “just another data point.” During the discussion, there was overwhelming >>>> support to keep Wikimania going every year, which is not a surprise >>>> considering this was *at* Wikimania. I encourage folks to peruse the >>>> Etherpad notes, which are quite extensive and expertly done by several >>>> folks there. >>>> >>>> Some views I’d highlight: >>>> - Having yearly Wikimania is important to keep the momentum of the >>>> movement going, according to many >>>> - A case for cancelling yearly Wikimania was to encourage/fund regional >>>> meetups. However, there is no guarantee that those regional meetups would >>>> actually take place, or that WMF would necessarily take the money saved >>>> from Wikimania to fund them. Some folks from Asia specifically said that >>>> there is weaker linguistic, cultural and geographic synergy for an “Asian” >>>> conference like there is in Europe and Africa, which is why it has been >>>> hard to do one. >>>> - One person noted that one trip to Wikimania served the same role as >>>> several international trips to get the same benefit from meeting other >>>> Wikimedians/developers, so there are indeed cost efficiencies in having a >>>> central conference. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania >>>> [2] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Andrew Lih >>>> Associate professor of journalism, American University >>>> Email: [email protected] >>>> WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com >>>> BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com >>>> PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Marc-Andre <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision >>>>>> being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or >>>>>> anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The >>>>> WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence >>>>> in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource >>>>> or not". >>>>> >>>>> The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the >>>>> consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the >>>>> "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which >>>>> is >>>>> reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed >>>>> and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the >>>>> community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania. >>>>> >>>>> -- Coren / Marc >>>>> >>>>> [1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty >>>>> much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most >>>>> logistical support year in and year out. >>>>> >>>>> [2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that >>>>> consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a >>>>> yearly >>>>> even given its irreplaceable role in our movement. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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