Thanks Ricardo, it's very encouraging to get feedback like this. And fun hearing about your history. You predate even me :). This really was amazing technology back in the day — and still is, I think! And it feels a little like our way of doing stuff is gaining some traction these days, at least on the web development side, as many seem to be re-discovering the power of simplicity. (won't mention the EOF/ORM part though, Cayenne honestly feels like something of a light in the darkness with the current state of java ORMs, so we've still got plenty to show the young'uns there)
Regarding .wod files; the parser in ng is really mainly a refactored WOOgnl, so it works fine with .wo templates as well. With regard to projects in "undur", note that projects like "modulo" are still somewhat experimental. With the recent discussions it's now at the top of my list to clarify their state a bit in the next few days. And I guess I should start doing actual versioning and making releases (darn them good practices). As for the "team"… I want to clarify that the people displayed as contributors on GitHub, at least the wonder-slim repository, are there because it's a fork of the original Project Wonder, so their contributions are entirely from Wonder's original commit history. So please, don't blame them for the horrible things I'm doing to their software! Honestly, all of them have done a lot more for WO than I ever have or will, I'm more or less just moving their code around. Cheers, - hugi > On 23 Sep 2025, at 13:10, Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com> wrote: > > Good morning Hugi, > > I just watched your “ng preview” video on YouTube—really impressive work by > you and the rest of the contributors. > > I’ve been working with this technology since the NeXT days, back when Craig > Federighi was on the EOF team. I was even beta testing EOF 2.0, using > EOF/AppKit at the time, before we eventually adopted WebObjects. > > I’ve been with WebObjects from the beginning, when WebScript and Objective-C > were the primary languages, and later transitioned our projects from > Objective-C to Java. At some point along the way we adopted Wonder mainly to > pick up fixes to the existing WebObjects and other functionality. > > I’m always interested in alternatives that feel familiar to WO but can adapt > more easily to the constantly evolving Java world. That’s one of the reasons > I’m also looking at Cayenne as an alternative to EOF. > > I didn’t notice an equivalent of a .wod file in the demo, but overall it’s > very impressive and promising work. > > By the way, I recognize many of the contributors on GitHub—it’s great to see > such a strong team behind these projects. I’m also interested in the other > projects you’ve published, including Wonder-slim, Parsley, modulo, and > vermilingua-maven-plugin. Parsley will likely be the first one we adopt, as a > replacement for WOOgnl in our existing apps. > > Thank you again for all of this work—it’s really exciting to see these > developments. > > Best regards, > > Ricardo Parada > > > > >> On Sep 23, 2025, at 4:07 AM, Hugi Thordarson via Webobjects-dev >> <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Ricardo, >> >> yeah, in short, I love WO so I've been slooowly working on a web framework >> inspired by it in the past few years, keeping APIs similar where it matters >> to make transition of my existing stuff easy, but still a clean room >> implementation (well … whatever "clean room" means when you're creating >> something inspired by software you've been using for 27 years — and for 10 >> of those, hacking it up to keep it working. Don't think I'll sound good in >> court. But no copying of code. Although AribaWeb helped a lot. And WOOgnl >> got totally ripped off — thanks Mike! :) >> >> And yes, a lot of the effort on ng leaks back into WO through the projects >> in github.com/undur , like Parsley. There's a lot of "crossover" in the work >> on the two and I have a large number of WO projects running, some of them >> large client projects that won't be migrated any time soon, so I need WO >> fresh and chipper for at least the next couple of years. >> >> Obligatoriy caveat; as I mentioned before, even if essentially usable and >> working, ng is still at an unstable stage design wise and has little to no >> documentation, so I currently only recommend it for the curious and brave. >> But the first prerelease due soon should clarify the situation a little. >> >> Cheers, >> - hugi >> >> >>> On 22 Sep 2025, at 23:24, Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Hugi, >>> >>> ng-objects sounds very interesting. I had not heard of it (I think) until >>> now. >>> >>> Is it basically an implementation of the most popular stuff in WebObjects >>> (such as the application class, session class, components and templates, >>> dynamic elements, component actions) with Parsley for the templates, inline >>> bindings support, short tags, all rolled into one and open source? >>> >>> Thank you >>> Ricardo Parada >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Sep 22, 2025, at 10:08 AM, Hugi Thordarson via Webobjects-dev >>>> <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Francois, >>>> >>>> It's built using ng-objects and Cayenne. The sources for the site are >>>> here: https://github.com/undur/whoacommunity . >>>> >>>> I originally created the site to host the WOCommunity Slack channel's >>>> archives (back when Slack decided deleting all our old data was a nice >>>> move). Recently added the "blog" on the front page, mostly so I can stop >>>> flooding the Slack channel with every thought in my head. Besides, Slack >>>> isn't a good place for content since everything written there eventually >>>> disappears. >>>> >>>> Planning on allowing comments on the articles. And if anyone else wants to >>>> be able to publish "articles", I'd be happy to add that functionality. >>>> >>>> Contemplating more stuff — ideas and pull requests welcomed. Sorry it's >>>> written in ng and not WO, but that's where I'm headed. My WO projects like >>>> wonder-slim and Parsley, although practical in general, are partially a >>>> stepping stone to assist with that migration. But I imagine that process >>>> will take at least a couple of years so you won't be rid of me quite yet >>>> :). >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> - hugi >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 22 Sep 2025, at 13:09, Francois BIENTZ via Webobjects-dev >>>>> <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello >>>>> >>>>> I just discovered this site >>>>> Is https://www.whoacommunity.com build with wonder-slim and Cayenne ? >>>>> >>>>> franc >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/hugi%40karlmenn.is >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to h...@karlmenn.is >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rparada%40mac.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to rpar...@mac.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rparada%40mac.com >> >> This email sent to rpar...@mac.com >
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