Always a good read:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/10/25/are-java-and-flash-doomed-on-the-mac/

James






On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:52 AM, Ian Joyner wrote:

> Interesting take from Matt. A few things concern me.
> 
> 1) He says "Executive quips always make headlines". Surely, what executives 
> say should be based on what their technical people have told them and be well 
> thought out. That is the mark of an agile environment where technical people 
> are treated with respect. If technical directions are taken without the input 
> of its technical people, that company is losing its way.
> 
> 2) It is good that Apple stays true to its mission of producing computers for 
> "the rest of us". The translation being "consumer focused". However, the rest 
> of us used to be computer novices. This is no longer the case. It is coming 
> back to a situation where people are knowledgeable in many computing 
> techniques and programming. These are the new consumers. That is we are 
> getting back to using computers for computing.
> 
> Yes, producing and supporting development environments is difficult. Apple 
> probably has its time cut out just with Xcode, Objective-C, and Cocoa. If 
> Apple just concentrates on this core technology, then it should make it easy 
> for others to provide other development environments.
> 
> That is because development environments enable us to use computers for 
> computing. A lot of universities love Apple equipment. Like Java, Ruby, and 
> Python developers favour Macs. But if Apple ditches these, they should be 
> provided by other parties (which Ruby and Python mainly are anyway).
> 
> I think of a previous university darling - Burroughs. Universities (and other 
> schools) are important customers because they train the next generation of 
> developers. Burroughs was used by many universities and universities produced 
> a lot of software like WFL (Burroughs ALGOL-like and structured JCL), etc. 
> But eventually Burroughs focused on their "customers" - corporations (Ray 
> McDonald, CEO of Burroughs once famously refused to sell Edsger Djikstra 3 
> B5000s, not wanting to set up a support structure in Europe). Universities 
> moved to Unix as more open development platforms, while Burroughs closed off 
> somewhat, even though they still had superior architectures and OS. Burroughs 
> lost Bob Barton and his ideas (although where they were left off still 
> survive at Unisys), but luckily he passed a lot of it onto students like Alan 
> Kay.
> 
> Thus I think it is good that Apple has been so focused as to bring successful 
> products, platforms, and strategies to the market. But that focus could also 
> kill it. Universities teach technologies like Java (Scala), Ruby, and Python. 
> I'd like to get back to things like LISP and Smalltalk - languages and 
> environments that are simple for beginners, yet have advanced features for 
> later years. Apple should not ignore this, and if it can't do it itself, 
> encourage others to do it. Although wasn't the best way to predict the future 
> to invent it? Apple has been very successful in inventing the future, or at 
> least promoting it (from Xerox) with Mac, and now iOS. So what's next? If you 
> can't invent the future, at least be a part of it and don't get in its way - 
> get out of the way... is that what Apple is doing?. That's maybe the open 
> strategy. IBM and Microsoft tried to dominate by getting in the way of the 
> future. It's not a nice strategy.
> 
> What about WO? Will that be continued to be developed by Apple? Or will it be 
> opened up and maybe opened up to other languages?
> 
> Ian
> 
> On 24 Oct 2010, at 18:09, Pascal Robert wrote:
> 
>> And Matt Drance take :
>> 
>>      http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/10/22/java
>> 
>>> SJ Speaks:
>>> 
>>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/frasers/5104179782/>
>>> 
>>> On 2010-10-22, at 7:29 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I am not advocating anything since I only develop one browser GUI for 
>>>> web-based apps myself. However I am stating an opinion that the platforms 
>>>> are diverging at a rate where "in my opinion" (and that is all it is) a 
>>>> cross-development GUI tool will have difficulty in being ideal and/or 
>>>> perfect on every platform. For example, are Apple's Human Interface 
>>>> guidelines identical to Microsoft's, Ubuntu and RHEL? Even at that, we 
>>>> have new form factors and input devices adding further divergence to 
>>>> interface interaction (iPad, touch-pad laptops etc.).
>>>> 
>>>> Personally I only need server side java for web-based apps. Ideally I want 
>>>> my development tools to run on Mac because that is my platform of choice. 
>>>> As long as I have a WO-compatible JVM on OS X, and I can run my 
>>>> development tools on OS X, I will, but if the sky fell down tomorrow and I 
>>>> had to use Parallels and a Linux VM to run Eclipse and get my WO-dev job 
>>>> done, I would. Life goes on.... 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:12 AM, Jean Pierre Malrieu wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I cannot believe that a developper advocates doing three times (MacOS, 
>>>>> Windows, Linux) the same boring UI job...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Le 22 oct. 2010 à 04:37, [email protected] a écrit :
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cross-platform development GUIs, IMHO, can never offer true fidelity on 
>>>>>> any one platform. They will mostly achieve an inferior subset of 
>>>>>> functionality at best, and possibly only look good on the platform to 
>>>>>> which they have been biased from the start. This is especially true as 
>>>>>> the gap widens between advancing high-tech operating systems such as OS 
>>>>>> X and would-they-ever-give-up-and-go-home-with-their-junk operating 
>>>>>> systems such as Winblows.
>>>>> 
> 
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