I guess that XMPP manages federation aspects like identity and server discovery that we don't have out-of-the-box with just things like protobuffers. To say just "transport" is a simplification, probably is better to say "federated transport" or "federated communication infrastructure"
2016-04-19 12:39 GMT+02:00 Dave Ball <[email protected]>: > I'm not sure that 'XMPP as a transport' is too much of a problem, so much > as the current implementation is quite complex. > > Currently wave requires an external XMPP server, and plugs into that as an > extension. This can be scalable but our implementation and configuration > could be simplified by e.g. embedding a simple XMPP server. > > Wave doesn't need a lot of the 'instant messaging' functionality provided > by full xmpp servers - iirc our users, buddy lists & message data are all > wave specific on top of xmpp. > > If we _are_ considering replacing the transport it might be worth looking > at something like ProtoBuffers directly on tcp, rather than using an > existing instant messaging framework? XMPP is fine, but the "instant > messaging" functionality doesn't really give us anything? > > My preference would be for federation that works out-of-the-box without > external components, rather than aiming for google-scale scalability in the > short term? > > > Dave > > > On 19/04/16 11:09, Pablo Ojanguren wrote: > >> Yuri, it's exciting to think on a blockchain decentralization approach, >> but >> AFAIK blockchain is not suitable for such operation rate that a OT system >> like Wave produce. >> In that sense is also interesting projects like IPFS <https://ipfs.io/> >> >> In addition, I am still think that the current Wave model federation is >> good (even it replicates data), the issues is the transport, so I suggest >> to try Matrix.org as replacement of XMPP. I will look into it in following >> weeks, and I am trying to get someone in SwellRT's GSoC to work on that >> during summer >> >> 2016-04-19 11:35 GMT+02:00 Yuri Z <[email protected]>: >> >> I was thinking about Federation via persistence level. In particular when >>> all the content persisted into database, but the database is >>> decentralized >>> (like bitcoin blockchain). The content though is encrypted. Each wave is >>> encrypted with a new key. Whenever a participant is added to the wave - >>> whoever adds him also adds a new record into this user data wavelet with >>> the wave private key that is encrypted with the user's public key. This >>> way >>> only the new user gets access the the wave private key. >>> I.e. all the content is public, but encrypted. Only those that control a >>> certain key can decrypt the message and add new content. >>> So, this architecture follows the bitcoin model - anyone can host his own >>> wave blockchain (like running his own wallet) or use a web wallet - i.e. >>> wave client hosted by someone else. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:24 PM Andreas Kotes <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 09:20:43PM -0700, Michael MacFadden wrote: >>>> >>>>> However, with respect to a particular wave, the federation model is >>>>> very much centralized. It is not decentralized in the same way that >>>>> XMPP and SMTP are. This is actually a function of how the Wave OT >>>>> algorithm works and not an issue with the transport or XMPP. >>>>> >>>> I'd even say that's the correct way to do it. One server should feel >>>> responsible for safeguarding the document regarding security and >>>> availability. >>>> >>>> If a document is decentralized only, versions can diverge and copies >>>> might go offline or disappear altogether, with the possibility of no >>>> copy remaining. >>>> >>>> The transport as such shouldn't matter too much - although if we stay >>>> in the Java/XML realm, XMPP sounds like a good fit, especially as (via >>>> Jabber) it has a lot of established infrastructure. >>>> >>>> Maybe Apache Wave would even make a good set of (official) XMPP >>>> >>> extensions? >>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> count >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andreas 'count' Kotes >>>> Taming computers for humans since 1990. >>>> "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go >>>> do >>>> it. >>>> Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." -- Howard >>>> Thurman >>>> >>>> >
