Christian, You're preaching to the choir. I understand clearly.
John On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Christian Grobmeier <grobme...@gmail.com>wrote: > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:46 PM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Christian, > > > > I leave it up to the developers to make those decisions. Whatever tools > > help the project to move forward best for both the immediate efforts and > > the long-term managing of the brand are the right tools. Knowing that > > GitHub is a community that attracts many leading edge developers in its > own > > right, having at least a mirror of the code in that environment certainly > > can't hurt. > > Sure, its about the project community to decide. > > That being said, one needs to know that GitHub is a tool, but the ASF > is more than "just" that. The ASF is a Foundation which protects you > (as a developer) > and the project from legal problems. The whole ASF is a big community. > GitHub is a set of tools, and the people forking and pull-requesting > there are not necessary > a community (of course they can become one). Still, the legal umbrella > is non-existent > there, except you build it up on your own. > > There are lot more of differences between a place like GitHub and the ASF. > > For example, GitHub is a company which hosts your code. In most cases you > have > no chance to join the board or influence company decisions. > > At the ASF you can become a member - or lets say "shareholder" - of > the foundation. > You can join the board (if elected) and have an influence as member. > > The ASF of course requires a few things to successfully protect > people/projects. > One of them is a canonical hosted scm. A mirror to GitHub is of course > possible > and never the problem. From ASF view it would be a problem to use GitHub > as main scm. > > If there are more questions on exactly these things, I can offer to > join a Google Hangout > and of course will try to answer all questions by mailing list. > Upayavira has huge > knowledge what the ASF offers too. > > Cheers > Christian > > > > All the best, > > > > John Blossom > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier < > grobme...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:27 AM, John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > Github+Apache+Wave=awesomeness. > >> > > >> > John > >> > >> Please be aware, that for legal reasons all code must live on ASF > >> platforms first. > >> We have a mirror on github: https://github.com/apache > >> > >> But in first place, we need to deal with code ourselves. We cannot > >> utilize GitHub as > >> first class repository and sync back. > >> > >> This has already caused some pain points in the past, but our infra > >> managed to > >> set up Git natively at Apache. So every project is free to move to Git > >> meanwhile. > >> We can even take over the mentioned project from Github to ASF and > >> then mirror back > >> to GitHub. > >> > >> If folks decide that GitHub is the canonical place of code, it would > >> end this incubation. its of course perfectly reasonable, not every > >> project makes a good fit at Apache. That said, I believe Wave would > >> benefit from the foundation. But in the end, its a decision being made > >> by the project. > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Scott Wilson < > >> > scott.bradley.wil...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> > >> >> On 12 Jun 2013, at 22:08, Upayavira wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > All I can say is, "well said". We need to consider Wave as a young > >> >> > project - one that really doesn't yet have anything set in stone. > >> >> > > >> >> > I've heard Apache described as a 'do-ocracy', that is, he who does, > >> >> > decides. > >> >> > > >> >> > If there's an approach you think would be good, start coding, show > us > >> >> > your work (stick it on Github or somewhere), and we can see about > >> >> > getting it a place in the Wave repo itself. > >> >> > > >> >> > In the end, what the Wave project exists for is to release > products. > >> To > >> >> > release products, we need real code. Let's get started with some > >> >> > experiments that, if successful, can eventually morph into real > >> >> > products. > >> >> > >> >> When Wave first entered the Incubator I offered my Node > implementation > >> of > >> >> the Wave Gadgets API as a contribution: > >> >> > >> >> https://github.com/scottbw/wave-node > >> >> > >> >> At that time the Wave project was still in the middle of sorting > itself > >> >> out so couldn't really think about absorbing more products. > >> >> > >> >> However, maybe its worth considering again? > >> >> > >> >> The module above also has integration with Apache Wookie (Wookie also > >> >> implements the Wave Gadgets API, but the default implementation uses > >> comet > >> >> and isn't as fast). Wookie is deployed automatically as part of > Apache > >> >> Rave, which then offers a practical distribution method for > Wave-related > >> >> products as part of enterprise social portals. > >> >> > >> >> Its also worth pointing out I think that ShareJS + Wave-Node = > basically > >> >> Wave in Node but without the federation stuff ... though unlike > Joseph > >> I'm > >> >> quite happy to give up maintaining my code in Github for a chance to > be > >> >> part of something bigger :) > >> >> > >> >> S > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Upayavira > >> >> > > >> >> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013, at 09:04 PM, Thomas Wrobel wrote: > >> >> >> I have been working on a geolocation (/augmented reality) specific > >> Wave > >> >> >> project: > >> >> >> arwave.org > >> >> >> I am not sure how suitable this is. > >> >> >> Its effectively a client that I (badly) want to be compatible with > >> any > >> >> >> standard wave server. > >> >> >> As there was no standard client/server protocol for the last few > >> >> >> years, I gave up, and instead made it work with XMPP/jabber chat. > >> >> >> Obviously, losing persistency along the way and crippling its > >> >> >> usefulness. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Would this project fit under the apache wave umbrella? I still > want > >> to > >> >> >> make it a wave server client - but untill the servers have the > >> >> >> protocol in place to allow that, it will be effectively just a > xmpp > >> >> >> client for a specific use. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -Thomas Wrobel. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> ps. Of course, I am happy to help out any wave developments I am > >> >> >> skilled enough to do anyway. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 12 June 2013 21:48, Michael MacFadden < > >> michael.macfad...@gmail.com> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >>> Wavers, > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> It has become clear that there a MANY more people are interested > in > >> >> Wave > >> >> >>> that we had previously thought. There recent explosion of > interest > >> is > >> >> >>> fantastic. However, what I am seeing is that the wave community > is > >> >> >>> splintered and fragmented. There are a lot of people who have > been > >> >> doing > >> >> >>> development work on wave related concepts like OT, federation, > etc > >> >> outside > >> >> >>> of Apache Wave. Maybe they thought they were not welcome. Maybe > >> they > >> >> >>> though the existing code base was headed in the wrong direction. > >> >> Maybe they > >> >> >>> thought we would not be open to their project ideas. Who knows. > >> >> Whatever > >> >> >>> the reason, there have been many side projects all over the web > some > >> >> how > >> >> >>> related to wave. Either inspired by wave, or developed to > explore > >> some > >> >> >>> alternative to the way wave did something. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> I would like to try to unite these efforts in to one umbrella > >> project. > >> >> From > >> >> >>> a code base perspective, we can create multiple folders in our > >> >> repository > >> >> >>> were proof of concepts and side projects can exist along side > WiaB. > >> If > >> >> this > >> >> >>> drives activity and interest to Apache Wave, then fantastic. > Sure > >> we > >> >> would > >> >> >>> love to have 20 people jump in and help us with the current > issues > >> >> directly > >> >> >>> in WiaB. If people want to do that, by all means PLEASE HELP. > But > >> if > >> >> that > >> >> >>> is not what you are interested in, but you ARE interested in some > >> >> other path > >> >> >>> forward, please join our community. Please use Apache Wave as > your > >> >> home to > >> >> >>> develop Wave technology. Be it OT, Clients, Protocols, what have > >> you. > >> >> >>> There is nothing that says the WiaB in its current form has to be > >> the > >> >> only > >> >> >>> product produced by this project. We could have a generic core > OT > >> >> Engine / > >> >> >>> API that powers wave. We could have the core server that > leverages > >> >> this > >> >> >>> engine. We could have multiple clients, etc. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> I specifically named the project Apache Wave and not Apache Wave > in > >> a > >> >> Box, > >> >> >>> because the vision was the eventually this project would become > the > >> >> home of > >> >> >>> a whole ecosystem of wave related things. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> If there is one current truth, it is that none of our groups has > >> been > >> >> >>> independently successful in developing and distributing a widely > >> used > >> >> and > >> >> >>> adopted OT based collaboration project. I think together we can > be > >> >> more > >> >> >>> successful than apart. Yes that means we have to hash things > out on > >> >> the > >> >> >>> mailing list occasionally, but I think we are all open to input > from > >> >> anyone. > >> >> >>> If we can create a place for side projects, then perhaps people > will > >> >> be more > >> >> >>> free to bring their ideas and efforts here. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> To that end, I would put a call out to people who are currently > >> >> working on > >> >> >>> related projects to officially joint the Apache Wave community. > >> >> Contribute > >> >> >>> some code, whatever that may be. Help start a proof of concept > for > >> an > >> >> OT > >> >> >>> Engine, work on the client server protocol, whatever you want to > do, > >> >> come do > >> >> >>> it here. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Together we can keep our collective momentum. Become a committer > >> >> here. We > >> >> >>> need you. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Sincere Regards, > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> ~Michael > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://www.grobmeier.de > >> https://www.timeandbill.de > >> > > > > -- > http://www.grobmeier.de > https://www.timeandbill.de >
