David,
I never had any problems either with an open system or a closed system.
Just remember that hydrogen like to burn straight up, so if running
covered, be sure the cover can be easily removed upward. When I ran
closed, I used a large cork at the top, and all the gasses tended to
recombine it the space between the top and the liquid.
Since you have already saw a flame and sparks, you might want to submerge
the jar in a water bath for a calorimetry measurements as well as to
provide some safety. Just be careful, be prepared and use your better
judgement.
Best Regards,
Chuck
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 2:30 PM, David Roberson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Last evening I made a smaller version of the electrolysis bath and the
> nickel overheated and melted the plastic container at the contact point
> again as it was sparking and spitting. The heat may be the result of joule
> heating or some other process as the current (3 amps for this test) is
> concentrated to a small region of the nickel due to a heavy coating of some
> unknown thick white material over most of its surface . Since I want to
> experiment further along this interesting line, I need to use a more robust
> container that does not melt at the temperatures encountered.
>
> I found a small glass jar that measures 2 inches diameter by 4 inches
> high and placed the electrodes within. After I had started the
> electrolysis, I began to think of safety from gas explosion. This system
> is capable of capturing hydrogen much better that the old open ones before
> since the walls are higher and the exit path narrow in proportion.
>
> I know that I will have sparks and small flames as with the open system
> so now I would like to know if there is significant danger of explosion.
> Is anyone aware of reports of a relatively low volume open to the
> air glass cell exploding and causing injury or damage to the surroundings?
> Most of the jar volume will likely be filled with a mix of hydrogen and
> oxygen plus room air. I have not calculated the amount of energy contained
> within the captured hydrogen since a bad calculation could be dangerous.
> Please give me guidance before I reconnect this beast as it now is on
> standby.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Roberson <[email protected]>
> To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 8:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started
>
> One final note that I want to include. I allowed the experiment to go
> into the unusual mode for the third time and made some measurements. The
> electrolyte was boiling as in the first two observations and I also noted
> sparks being emitted.
>
> Unfortunately, I let the system become too hot and it melted the bottom
> of my test container allowing the electrolyte to leak out. After this
> episode, I obtained a smaller container and started another round of
> testing. I will need to compete another calibration before useful data can
> be obtained.
>
> A most interesting afternoon.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Roberson <[email protected]>
> To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 5:35 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started
>
> I have an interesting addition to this report. After I cleaned up the
> deposits and added water and electrolyte I let my experiment continue
> electrolysis. The effect happened again with some interesting differences.
> I noticed that the thin layer that coated the electrolyte bath came in the
> form of small floating islands about the size of a standard pencil lead.
> These came together to form a film over the surface. A much thicker
> deposit formed upon the active nickel that is like a form of crust.
>
> Then I noticed that sparks were being emitted from the edge of the
> active nickel! The sparks came intermittently and the intensity of the
> sparks varied. I saw actual flames on rare occasions which had me alarmed.
> Perhaps this is caused by the hydrogen becoming ignited at that electrode.
> The water between electrodes was at boiling temperature.
>
> I noticed that the supply voltage was varying by a large degree in the
> fashion of bubble bursting which could be due to the reduced path for ions
> to the nickel that is now covered with the white hard deposit.
>
> Next, I tapped the deposit mostly off of the nickels and added water to
> the bath. The surface deposit was stirred up so that things are returning
> toward normal. There still remains a layer of the white deposit on the top
> of the active nickel from which bubbles of hydrogen are exiting.
>
> This experiment is getting more interesting all the time. I hope to get
> to the bottom of the observations, but I have no idea what is occurring.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Roberson <[email protected]>
> To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 3:54 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started
>
> I had an exciting afternoon. I replaced my control nickel with the 40
> plus hour heat treated one that resembles an old penny now and began
> electrolysis.
>
> The reading of voltage was a bit unusual after the first hour of
> operation so I replenished the water and added a little additional sodium
> carbonate to allow the system to reach equilibrium. Just before I started
> to make the standard readings after approximately an hour of additional
> electrolysis a friend called me on the telephone so I was diverted. We
> spoke for I would guess about half an hour until line noise convinced me to
> go upstairs to accept another call. Both of us changed telephones but the
> noise was still bad as we continued our conversation.
>
> Perhaps 30 minutes later we finished the call and I went back to make
> the measurements. My system was behaving very strange. I noticed that the
> bath had a thin white layer of material on its surface and a thick deposit
> was on the test nickel. This deposit was white and crystalline which I
> would guess is some type of carbonate. It was also very evident that a
> loud hissing noise was originating from the test system.
>
> I broke a hole through the thin layer covering the bath easily with my
> finger and noticed that it was very hot to the touch. The test nickel was
> also extremely hot. I decided to make the usual measurements and saw that
> the current was within normal range at 2.5 amps while the voltage had
> increased to 12.57 volts which is about 2 volts above typical. The liquid
> was reading 80 degrees C which is much higher than normal. With the
> measured delta C I would expect to have 86 watts of power being dissipated
> according to previous calibrations. The actual input was calculated as
> 31.425 watts.
>
> This will clearly be a significant measurement of excess power if it
> holds up to scrutiny. I suspect that the thin film on the surface of the
> electrolyte is acting as an insulator or some other issue is contributing
> to the strange results.
>
> I stirred up the electrolyte, cleaned off the nickel deposit and added
> additional water and sodium carbonate to see if the effect arises again.
> Regardless of whether or not this proves to be elusive, I had an
> interesting episode!
>
> By the way, I turned off the power to my test system and the line noise
> continued so I suspect the noise was generated by some other problem
> besides radiation emissions from my device (I sure hope so).
>
> Dave
>
