On 12/16/2009 04:30 PM, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. wrote:
Only Steorn's people know what the plans are, but many of us think that their activities are carefully orchestrated and they're keeping to the plan, as bizarre as it seems ( but I sure wish it had been a whole helluva lot faster ). Steorn is definitely keeping a low, sometimes misleading profile. Speculation: Imagine that fortuitously (which it was) you discover that magnetic fields really aren't conservative in spite of what you learned in college
But I didn't learn that in college. (The old "you are a trained seal" attack...)
In college I learned that "B fields do no work", which is rather different, and, what's more, patently false (but it's amazing how many physicists who ought to know better will stubbornly stick to that mantra).
A long time later, I learned that the action of a B field is conservative when I worked through the equations and found that forces on a fixed dipole in a B field can be modeled as the gradient of a potential. Combined with the model of the action of B fields on electromagnets, which can also be shown to be conservative, we can arrive at the conclusion that any system of E and B fields will behave conservatively ... IF they superpose linearly.
( or due to Noether's theorm ( conservation laws don't apply in time varying systems )), and Sv ( Magnetic viscosity ) ( Time delay between an applied H field to a ferromagnetic material, and the material's domain response to it ). I look at the anomalies as emergent properties of highly non-linear time varying systems that are effectively unanalyzeable.
The trouble with this notion is that, if the fields superpose linearly (as theory says, and as an awful lot of experiments show that they do), then all you need to know is that the individual entities interact conservatively, and you can conclude that the whole object will also behave conservatively, even if the interactions are so complicated that you can't analyze all the details. I.e., as long as the fields superpose linearly, there won't be any "real" anomalies.
The system also isn't really "time-varying". You have the same set of particles throughout the whole operation, and they're generating the same set of fields the whole time; they're just moving around relative to each other. You never "turn on" or "turn off" any of the fields involved.
It's like the Solar System. It's far too complex to be fully analyzed, but using Newton's laws, we can still conclude that energy will be conserved in the interactions of the planets, because it's conserved "pairwise" and because the interactions add linearly.
It's only if the fields superpose nonlinearly that the system will really behave in a nonlinear (and essentially unpredictable) manner. Gravitational interactions as modeled in GR, for instance, are astonishingly hard to figure out, because the GR model is indeed nonlinear -- unlike Newtonian gravity, or E&M fields.
There would be an infinite number of embodyments that could make use of that knowledge. So how does a company make a profit with such a basic piece of knowledge? If it was just summarily proved, the Chinese et al. would immediately start producing products making use of the knowledge, and it would be the end of the game for Steorn ( Once something is shown to be possible, everyone and their relatives get involved e.g. nuclear devices ). In any case, I have seen numerous configurations of their permanent magnet motor designs, but Steorn has never actually shown one working to us except for the Knapen Kinetron video, but they have been hand holding ( hand waving ) us through the theory.
That would disturb me. (I mean, the bit about "never actually" showing a working model.)
The NDA does not permit revealing the contents of the NDA ( It's a meta-NDA :-) ), however I feel free to discuss anything I've already seen publicly revealed. They'll let you sign one too if you want, they'll let anyone have one ( unless you have a particularly unsavory past :-) ).
No thanks.
I'll just be patient, as hard as it is to do that. -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson [mailto:[email protected]]
