Brian, Thanks for posting. It's nice that you guys are willing to discuss this stuff publicly. :-)
On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:03:36AM -0500, W. Brian Blevins wrote: > > I am most definitely not a lawyer. Understood. Neither am I. > > Personally, I suspect there is a GPL violation going on here. In fact, > > We respectfully disagree. In fact, others posting to this forum > in the past would appear to disagree as well: > > http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/archives/2001-10/0353.html > > http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/archives/2001-10/0340.html It doesn't look to me like either of those posters had actually downloaded the software and taken a close look at it before posting. They were giving the benefit of the doubt. (I did too until I installed it for myself.) > > I'm fairly certain of it. TridiaVNC (or at least components of it) > > are distributed as a part of TridiaVNC Pro. It even installs a > > TridiaVNC subdirectory which includes a copy of the GPL. However, > > the GPL reads: > > > > 0. This License applies to any program or other work which > > contains a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be > > distributed under the terms of this General Public License. The > > "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, and a "work > > based on the Program" means either the Program or any derivative > > work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the > > Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications > > and/or translated into another language. > > What precisely does the GPL define as a "derivative work"? The GPL doesn't precisely define "derivative work", which can make these kinds of discussions interesting. It leaves the definition open to the same laws which govern traditional copyright. The definition is subject to the interpretation of the courts. A good rule of thumb is to put yourself into the shoes of the original author (ORL/AT&T) and pretend that you had released the code under a license which allows redistribution but not modifications or derived works. (Let's also pretend for simplicity that TridiaVNC was the original product.) Someone else comes along with a commercial product exactly like TVP. If you installed it and noticed the way it incorporates TridiaVNC behind the scenes, would you think it was a valid redistribution, or would you consider it an illegal derived work? > Basically, the closed source components in TridiaVNC Pro do not link > with the open source components. That may be the case, but a user downloading TVP wouldn't be able to tell the difference. There is no indication during the installation process that two separate products with two separate licenses are being installed. TVP cannot be downloaded without the GPL components. Nor does it appear that it would be at all useful if the GPL components were removed. If the user already has TridiaVNC installed, TVP doesn't integrate with that installation at all; the TridiaVNC components of TVP are completely separate. If the binaries were linked, then it would definitely be a clearer case. Even without linking, however, TVP can be said to incorporate TridiaVNC. The two products are combined so that they are effectively a single system. They can't be treated as two separate programs. I think any court would consider TVP a derivative work for that reason. > > TridiaVNC Pro looks like a derivative work to me. Even if they > > could somehow prove in court that it is not a derivative work, there > > is a problem with the click-through license in the TridiaVNC Pro > > installer. It removes many of the freedoms granted by the GPL for > > the entire piece of software without any exclusions for the open > > source components. This is still my biggest concern. At the very least, the TVP installer should make the customer aware of the existence of GPLed software within the package and should not force the user to click through a license which explicitly violates the GPL for those components. I've also noticed something else that concerns me with TridiaVNC (not TVP). It doesn't contain the copyright notices of the various authors, notably AT&T, Widget Workshop, Inc., and Jef Poskanzer, in the binary distribution (I haven't looked at the source distribution). I suspect that some additional credits (Constantin Kaplinsky, Tim Waugh, etc.) would also be appropriate. Thanks again, Mike -- Mike Ossmann, Tarantella/UNIX Engineer/Instructor Alternative Technology, Inc. http://www.alttech.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the line: 'unsubscribe vnc-list' in the message BODY See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------
