Yeah um I am fine with the subjective descriptions. At least it gives me an idea of what someones expression may be. I love knowing what things look like, and even fine details if someone is very descriptive when talking about something. I wish AI tools were built into more things so I could take advantage of this.
On 11/14/23, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, if you're just speaking for yourself then you have the option of just > not using an AI tool that provides these suggestive opinions. If you don't > think others should have the option of using these tools then all I'd say is > that I appreciate these tools and the subjective descriptions. I know it's > coming from an AI, and I feel that I'm mature enough not to be jaded by > these descriptions. When I use Be My AI to have a picture my wife painted > described to me, I like to hear things like "vibrant blue". Even if it said > something like "amateurish," I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that my wife > isn't a good painter. I use it as much for entertainment as I do for > information. When I read alt text on an image, I appreciate it even though I > know it was provided by someone I don't know and what their biases may be. > As with most things, I think it's up to each person whether they choose to > use such a tool or not. > > -- > Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ > Chaltain at Outlook, USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mary > Otten > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 8:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > John has hit the nail exactly on the head. I don’t want some anonymous AI > programmed by God knows who with whatever dark algorithm that nobody knows > about telling me what’s there and making subjective judgments about it. It’s > just a bad idea. And there are plenty of examples in the news where there > are misunderstandings across cultural and racial lines, and people have been > killed for it. That black person was angry. They were threatening. Boom! > Dead person. It’s just wrong. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 14, 2023, at 4:43 PM, realman02 via VIPhone >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not >> want a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions >> about people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for >> human to human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who >> knows what criteria the AI program used to generate its description? >> John Riehl >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >> Carolyn Arnold >> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have >> facial expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course, >> expressions vary, but they are a part of a person's face. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> This is how I would rephrase the description: >> >>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and >>> appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. >>> His eyes are partially closed. >> His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored >> polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right >> side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold >> thread. >> >> John >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >> Carolyn Arnold >> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones >> of us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My >> A I might say about our expression. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Christopher Chaltain >> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are >> getting at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using >> and how that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI >> generated descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a >> description from another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't >> going to be free of interpretation. >> >> Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a >> greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and >> wouldn't be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky >> yellow." We had a good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card. >> >> For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description >> coming from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable >> description. I'd find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My >> AI and then sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm >> guessing that the more sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular >> and most people find the interpretation of the image as one of the more >> interesting parts of the description. >> >> -- >> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ >> Chaltain at Outlook, USA >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >> Sieghard Weitzel >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the >> AI is free not to use the service. >> Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even >> descriptions which included descriptions of facial expressions were >> actually amazingly correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what >> they thought of the desdcription and whether they agtreed that the >> interpretation was good or not. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >> Mary Otten >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s >> expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And >> as a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times >> people have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. >> Apparently you’re supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if >> you’re a woman. So I don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it >> must obviously be, based on who is making these glorious language models >> and facial expression models etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human >> interaction, and never mind somebody else assuming they know what I’m >> thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that >> misunderstanding on somebody else. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not >>> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making >>> those judgements. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>> Kellie >>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>> >>> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just >>> because an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t >>> mean you have to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions The beauty >>> is we have deductive reasoning and can make that determination with >>> further input. Also, if you’re totally blind, every input of an >>> expression is going to be through hearsay whether it’s artificial >>> intelligence or another human being. You’re still going by their >>> interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single >>> thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or >>> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every >>> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the >>> same thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial >>> intelligence Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. >>> because I can use my reasoning to figure it out. >>> >>> Kellie and my lovable Lady J >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if >>>> we could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what >>>> it sees. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>> Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright >>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>>> >>>> What is wrong with the truth? >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Cristóbal Muñoz <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM >>>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>>> >>>> >>>> This topic reminds me of these two articles. >>>> >>>> Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame >>>> <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/blind-olympic-athletes-show-the-universal-nature-of-pride-and-shame> >>>> >>>> The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial >>>> expressions by blind people: >>>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902524/> >>>> >>>> Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I >>>> used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to >>>> roast. I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture >>>> with my iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description >>>> of the type of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole >>>> bunch of other info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool >>>> cool… >>>> >>>> At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that >>>> the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with >>>> the editorializing? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cristóbal >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>>> Sieghard Weitzel >>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described >>>> you as "serious" because you weren't smiling. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf >>>> Of Malcolm Parfitt >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM >>>> >>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello friends. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no >>>> idea what I look like. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently >>>> when we were in what we call in the UK a pub. I was very interested in >>>> the results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo. It’s >>>> description was: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His >>>> hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a >>>> full head of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat >>>> stern or serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he >>>> has full lips. He is clean-shaven. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a >>>> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel >>>> Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a >>>> comfortable fit. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central >>>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about >>>> the man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a >>>> sighted person looking in a mirror. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression. I >>>> had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are >>>> expressions learned or natural. How far do our expressions mirror those >>>> of sighted people. I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s >>>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look >>>> serious? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most >>>> interested in your opinions. >>>> >>>> Malcolm Parfitt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> . 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Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/03bf01da175c%24cc94e0f0%2465bea2d0%24%40verizon.net. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/158EACF0-CCD4-402F-BB9A-AA0E2A4A46D5%40gmail.com. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/PH0PR14MB4296A2955709DCE6C4704540C8B1A%40PH0PR14MB4296.namprd14.prod.outlook.com. > -- Lenron Brown Skype: ron.brown762 -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. 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