Yeah um I am fine with the subjective descriptions. At least it gives
me an idea of what someones expression may be. I love knowing what
things look like, and even fine details if someone is very descriptive
when talking about something. I wish AI tools were built into more
things so I could take advantage of this.

On 11/14/23, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, if you're just speaking for yourself then you have the option of just
> not using an AI tool that provides these suggestive opinions. If you don't
> think others should have the option of using these tools then all I'd say is
> that I appreciate these tools and the subjective descriptions. I know it's
> coming from an AI, and I feel that I'm mature enough not to be jaded by
> these descriptions. When I use Be My AI to have a picture my wife painted
> described to me, I like to hear things like "vibrant blue". Even if it said
> something like "amateurish," I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that my wife
> isn't a good painter. I use it as much for entertainment as I do for
> information. When I read alt text on an image, I appreciate it even though I
> know it was provided by someone I don't know and what their biases may be.
> As with most things, I think it's up to each person whether they choose to
> use such a tool or not.
>
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 8:21 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> John has hit the nail exactly on the head. I don’t want some anonymous AI
> programmed by God knows who with whatever dark algorithm that nobody knows
> about telling me what’s there and making subjective judgments about it. It’s
> just a bad idea. And there are plenty of examples in the news where there
> are misunderstandings across cultural and racial lines, and people have been
> killed for it. That black person was angry. They were threatening. Boom!
> Dead person. It’s just wrong.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 14, 2023, at 4:43 PM, realman02 via VIPhone
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not
>> want a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions
>> about people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for
>> human to human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who
>> knows what criteria the AI program used to generate its description?
>> John Riehl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>> Carolyn Arnold
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have
>> facial expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course,
>> expressions vary, but they are a part of a person's face.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> This is how I would rephrase the description:
>>
>>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and
>>> appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair.
>>> His eyes are partially closed.
>> His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored
>> polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right
>> side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold
>> thread.
>>
>> John
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>> Carolyn Arnold
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones
>> of us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My
>> A I might say about our expression.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
>> Of Christopher Chaltain
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are
>> getting at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using
>> and how that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI
>> generated descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a
>> description from another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't
>> going to be free of interpretation.
>>
>> Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a
>> greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and
>> wouldn't be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky
>> yellow." We had a good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.
>>
>> For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description
>> coming from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable
>> description. I'd find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My
>> AI and then sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm
>> guessing that the more sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular
>> and most people find the interpretation of the image as one of the more
>> interesting parts of the description.
>>
>> --
>> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
>> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the
>> AI is free not to use the service.
>> Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even
>> descriptions which included descriptions of facial expressions were
>> actually amazingly correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what
>> they thought of the desdcription and whether they agtreed that the
>> interpretation was good or not.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>> Mary Otten
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s
>> expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And
>> as a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times
>> people have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling.
>> Apparently you’re supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if
>> you’re a woman. So I don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it
>> must obviously be, based on who is making these glorious language models
>> and facial expression models etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human
>> interaction, and never mind somebody else assuming they know what I’m
>> thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that
>> misunderstanding on somebody else.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not
>>> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making
>>> those judgements.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>>> Kellie
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>
>>> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just
>>> because an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t
>>> mean you have to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions The beauty
>>> is we have deductive reasoning and can make that determination with
>>> further input. Also, if you’re totally blind, every input of an
>>> expression is going to be through hearsay whether it’s artificial
>>> intelligence or another human being. You’re still going by their
>>> interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single
>>> thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or
>>> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every
>>> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the
>>> same thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial
>>> intelligence Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc.
>>> because I can use my reasoning to figure it out.
>>>
>>> Kellie and my lovable Lady J
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if
>>>> we could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what
>>>> it sees.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>>> Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>>
>>>> What is wrong with the truth?
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  From: Cristóbal Muñoz <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>  To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>>>  Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>>>>
>>>>  Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame
>>>> <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/blind-olympic-athletes-show-the-universal-nature-of-pride-and-shame>
>>>>
>>>>  The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial
>>>> expressions by blind people:
>>>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902524/>
>>>>
>>>>  Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I
>>>> used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to
>>>> roast. I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture
>>>> with my iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description
>>>> of the type of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole
>>>> bunch of other info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool
>>>> cool…
>>>>
>>>>  At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that
>>>> the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with
>>>> the editorializing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Cristóbal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>  From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>>>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>>>  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>>>  To: [email protected]
>>>>  Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described
>>>> you as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>>  From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf
>>>> Of Malcolm Parfitt
>>>>
>>>>  Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
>>>>
>>>>  To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>>  Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hello friends.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no
>>>> idea what I look like.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently
>>>> when we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in
>>>> the results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s
>>>> description was:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His
>>>> hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a
>>>> full head of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat
>>>> stern or serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he
>>>> has full lips. He is clean-shaven.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a
>>>> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel
>>>> Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a
>>>> comfortable fit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central
>>>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about
>>>> the man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a
>>>> sighted person looking in a mirror.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I
>>>> had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are
>>>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those
>>>> of sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s
>>>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look
>>>> serious?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most
>>>> interested in your opinions.
>>>>
>>>>  Malcolm Parfitt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>


-- 
Lenron Brown


Skype: ron.brown762

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
[email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
[email protected]

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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To view this discussion on the web visit 
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