It’s nice, but if you’re using Google Docs, or Salesforce at work, you may want 
to go to an Apple Store and check it out for yourself.
Devin Prater
[email protected]

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Oct 16, 2023, at 9:20 PM, Dennis Long <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I have given some thought to getting a mac when I can afford it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Kliph
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 1:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: We Deserve Better from Apple Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac 
> to Fellow Blind Computer Users.
> 
> I second that, I have to use windows for work, and you wouldn’t believe how 
> many trouble tickets I have to submit a week for jaws issues.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 9:39 PM, Ed Worrell <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> This article is very, very, very late to the game. I have not had this issue 
>> with Safari freezing on my Mac computers in a very long time. Probably in 
>> over 3 years. I really don’t understand the hatred from the post on 
>> AppleVis. The AppleVis site has become very negative in the last few years. 
>> I’m not saying Apple is perfect by any means, but this goes a bit far. I 
>> have had more issues with my Windows 11 machine with JAWS installed, over 
>> the last year.
>> 
>> Ed
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 8, 2023, at 8:43 PM, Mike Arrigo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Chrome and Firefox both work really well.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 8, 2023, at 7:40 PM, Ron Canazzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Group,
>>>> 
>>>> Since this editorial involves primarily Safari browser and since there are 
>>>> other browsers such as Firefox that can be used on the Mac, has anyone 
>>>> tried Firefox on a Mac or perhaps any other browser?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/8/2023 7:35 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
>>>>> I love my iPhone and even my Apple TV, but while I tried Voiceover on a 
>>>>> MAC a little, it is not a system I would want to deal with on a 
>>>>> day-to-day bases.
>>>>> Maybe that is because I have been using Jaws at first with DOS in 1989 
>>>>> and since the mid 90’s with Windows, but I can’t even imagine what such a 
>>>>> bug would do to me now when my retail business runs on a web-based point 
>>>>> of fsale and accounting platform and I virtually use Chrome (or sometimes 
>>>>> Edge) along with Excel and Outlook literally all day long.
>>>>> Of course I don’t claim that Windows 11 with the latest version of a 
>>>>> Chromium-based web browser or Firefox and Jaws 2023 and for a while now 
>>>>> Jaws 2024 in Beta is perfect, but it’s very rare that Windows, Chrome or 
>>>>> Jaws crashes when I use our point of sale, Lightspeed Retail and I often 
>>>>> go the entire week without having to reboot my computer. On Saturday 
>>>>> evenings we usually turn all the computers at my store off since we are 
>>>>> closed Sundays, but once they get turned on Monday morning they stay on 
>>>>> until Saturday evening.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Sieghard
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
>>>>> janet gross
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 4:27 PM
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Subject: We Deserve Better from Apple Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac 
>>>>> to Fellow Blind Computer Users.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Everyone, 
>>>>> Here is an interesting article I just thought some of you might like to 
>>>>> read. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.applevis.com/blog/we-deserve-better-apple-why-i-can-no-longer-recommend-mac-fellow-blind-computer-users
>>>>> We Deserve Better from Apple: Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac to 
>>>>> Fellow Blind Computer Users
>>>>> As many of you will know from personal experience, there is a 
>>>>> longstanding issue with VoiceOver on Mac where Safari will frequently 
>>>>> become unresponsive with VoiceOver repeatedly announcing the message 
>>>>> “Safari not responding.” When this issue occurs, the user's Mac may 
>>>>> become unusable for up to several minutes at a time. Sometimes it can be 
>>>>> resolved by switching away from Safari. Sometimes restarting VoiceOver 
>>>>> can resolve the issue. However, far too often, the user is unable to 
>>>>> switch away from Safari or turn VoiceOver off, instead having to simply 
>>>>> wait for their Mac to become responsive again.
>>>>> This “Safari not responding” behaviour when using VoiceOver dramatically 
>>>>> impacts productivity and overall usability of Macs for blind and low 
>>>>> vision users. Furthermore, it appears that the issue extends beyond just 
>>>>> Safari - many other common applications that utilise Apple's WebKit 
>>>>> browser engine can also be affected by the “not responding” problem.
>>>>> It is also important to point out this issue occurs regardless of the 
>>>>> specification level of the Mac - it has been widely experienced on the 
>>>>> latest Apple silicon-equipped Macs with 16GB or more of RAM, so even 
>>>>> owners of top-tier new Mac hardware still face this crippling VoiceOver 
>>>>> bug.
>>>>> This critical problem has persisted for years across multiple MacOS 
>>>>> versions without a permanent fix from Apple. Given the longevity and 
>>>>> level of disruption caused by this bug across Safari and other 
>>>>> applications, I can unfortunately no longer in good faith recommend Macs 
>>>>> to anyone who relies on using VoiceOver. The impact of this bug when 
>>>>> performing routine, and often critical, tasks in Safari and other 
>>>>> applications simply makes macOS an unreliable and frustrating platform.
>>>>> Macs have traditionally been popular within the blind community, and they 
>>>>> offer some great accessibility features. However, frankly, Apple should 
>>>>> be utterly ashamed that they have let this issue persist for so long 
>>>>> without a permanent fix. It's a failing that raises serious questions 
>>>>> about the company's frequently stated commitment to accessibility. There 
>>>>> can be no doubt that if sighted users were to experience something 
>>>>> similar, that it would receive significant media coverage and that 
>>>>> Apple's response would be fast.
>>>>> I believe we need to escalate out urging of Apple to prioritise and 
>>>>> permanently solve the “Safari not responding” bug that has plagued 
>>>>> VoiceOver users for far too long. To this end, I encourage those of you 
>>>>> who use VoiceOver on Mac to directly contact Apple's accessibility team 
>>>>> at [email protected] to share your own personal experiences with 
>>>>> and frustrations about the “Safari not responding” issue. It is important 
>>>>> we continue putting direct, polite pressure on Apple to prioritise 
>>>>> resolving this problem. Please be constructive in expressing your 
>>>>> concerns. Consider also copying Apple CEO Tim Cook on your email by using 
>>>>> his publicly shared email address [email protected] to ensure he sees the 
>>>>> direct impact this ongoing bug is having on Apple's blind and low vision 
>>>>> customers.
>>>>> I want to emphasise that the “Safari not responding” bug is far from the 
>>>>> only issue effecting VoiceOver users on Mac. As our recent post on 
>>>>> problems in macOS Sonoma and the replies outline, there are numerous 
>>>>> other VoiceOver frustrations and failures impacting users. However, it 
>>>>> has become a yardstick by which Apple's overall performance on and 
>>>>> commitment to accessibility is being judged. It is a yardstick against 
>>>>> which Apple has failed for some considerable time.
>>>>> I know many of you share my frustration. I welcome your perspectives and 
>>>>> discussion in the comments. Collectively, we need to apply consumer 
>>>>> pressure by being vocal about this issue and not purchasing new Macs 
>>>>> until the “Safari not responding” issue is fixed once and for all. Apple 
>>>>> simply must do better and restore our trust that Macs provide a stable 
>>>>> and fully accessible experience for its blind and low vision customers.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   David Goldfield 
>>>>> Assistive Technology Specialist
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news and updates 
>>>>> regarding the blindness assistive technology space
>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>> 
>>>>> WWW.DavidGoldfield.com
>>>>> _._,_._,_
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
>>>>> list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> 
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>> --- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>>> "VIPhone" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to [email protected].
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BL3P221MB0273E6C79CC1FB1F0F930FD8FCCFA%40BL3P221MB0273.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
>>>>> list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
>>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> 
>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>> --- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>>> "VIPhone" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>>> email to [email protected].
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/SJ0PR12MB56618526B06F25574FA91A6BC7CFA%40SJ0PR12MB5661.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Signature:
>>>> For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to 
>>>> correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
>>>> For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and 
>>>> to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
>>>> list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
>>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>> --- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "VIPhone" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to [email protected].
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/369418db-0d43-aad0-83f2-93e4861b0fe1%40roadrunner.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> [email protected]
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "VIPhone" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to [email protected].
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/614C5FA0-5083-482D-9C5F-EFB0F6B2C95F%40charter.net.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> [email protected]
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to [email protected].
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/6C009F8A-ABD0-42F2-9BCD-5F4907AAEBEB%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> [email protected]
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to [email protected].
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BL3PR07MB8913E34A61C6DDBC9EA8344FE3D7A%40BL3PR07MB8913.namprd07.prod.outlook.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> [email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> [email protected]
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to [email protected].
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00da01da00a0%24775e0a30%24661a1e90%24%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
[email protected].  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
[email protected]

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/73FE1CD7-F029-44A2-B798-CAC22F9CB56C%40gmail.com.

Reply via email to