Hi guys, I find the argumentation that Apple does not include BVI in their public betas seems a bit over the top, considering that Apple had warned that the current beta will not be accessible. This can be due to many different variables, including that Apple may be transferring their code base to a new framework that is currently not 100% and requires some more refinements. If you agree to download a beta, the agreement holds for all clauses given by Apple, including warnings, and other bugs that may cause your device not to function until you either a reset or downgrade the OS or a new build comes out. You specifically agree to all these clauses, so complaining after that your device is not working using a beta, I repeat beta installation is like agreeing to participate in a medical trial for some kind of tablet, and you complain after that your bowels are loose.
If Apple decided to omit BVI for one build out of many, and have clearly mentioned this, I see no reason for myself to download that beta, since I already have a fully functional device, and trying to go bleeding edge is always an issue no matter what software product. Waiting for the next beta build isn't the end of the world, and life has a lot of other activities to partake in. Isn't it simple just to wait, considering that Apple has given a tremendous amount of time to make mac OS and all its other products accessible on the get go, and that you are going bleeding edge at your own risk? I am a developer myself, and will never install bleeding edge mac OS builds on a critical device as I know I will run the risk of not being able to do certain tasks, because some features are being refined and in that process, some accessibility buttons or features may be temporarily broken. Besides, Apple's commitment to accessibility is not a mystery, and the current switch to a merger between mac OS IOS and others seems like a good direction, that will make our devices clearly more integrated. Finally, if you had purchased the beta and it bricked your device for good, then this might be some justification to be angry, but none of this is the case. Have a great rest of week y'all, Yuma > On 17 Aug 2020, at 4:29 pm, Donna Casteen <[email protected]> wrote: > > The reason behind Jonathan creating the petition is twofold: 1. Apple's > warning to voiceover users on Apple watches not to install the beta, leaving > blind individuals unable to beta test. 2. It was brought to Jonathan's > attention that someone had installed the public beta on their watch, > rendering the watch unusable. Even though the petition didn't mention the > above second point. It was part of the basis for starting the petition. Both > points above show that Apple showed a lack of disgard for the blind public > beta testers, by not having a voiceover compatible beta version available for > the Apple watch. > > What confuses me, it seems that blind public beta testers are under the > mindset that sighted public beta testers do not have to deal with major bugs > that render their devices unusable. This isn't true. I suggest that people go > read the developer and beta tester forums on Apple's website. If for no other > reason, to educate yourself. > > >> >> I'm not sure what I should look into more. The petition, which I did read, >> says nothing about someone installing a beta with a VoiceOver bug after they >> were warned not to by Apple. The petition just said that a public beta was >> made available but blind people using VoiceOver couldn't participate due to >> a VoiceOver bug. IMHO, if a public beta is made available to the sighted >> then it should also be made available to the blind. It seems pretty cut and >> dry to me. >> >> -- >> Christopher (AKA CJ) >> Chaltain at Gmail >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf >>> Of Simon A Fogarty >>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 7:30 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Petition · Apple: Apple, commit to never again willfully >>> excluding >>> disabled people from public betas · Change.org >>> >>> Hi Christopher, >>> >>> You should read more into it, >>> >>> The person behind this idea did install the pb for watch os 7 to their >>> primary >>> watch device and voiceover wasn't working >>> >>> Apple do state that you shouldn't put a beta on to a primary device as it >>> is a beta >>> and therefore may cause issues that mean the device wont work correctly, >>> >>> This person had to send their watch away to have it setup again and blaims >>> this >>> all on appples attitude towards visually impaired users of there devices >>> When it >>> really comes down to the users ignorance and not listening to apples >>> suggestion. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf >>> Of [email protected] >>> Sent: Sunday, 16 August 2020 9:01 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Petition · Apple: Apple, commit to never again willfully >>> excluding >>> disabled people from public betas · Change.org >>> >>> I didn't see anything in the petition that said anyone went ahead and >>> installed >>> the beta even after Apple warned that voiceOver users shouldn't install the >>> beta. >>> The point of the petition, as I read it, is that Apple shouldn't exclude >>> blind people >>> from participating in the public beta because of such a serious and known >>> VoiceOver bug. I myself do find a lot of petitions are frivolous and over >>> the top, >>> but I don't have a problem with this one myself. >>> >>> -- >>> Christopher (AKA CJ) >>> Chaltain at Gmail >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf >>> Of >>>> Donna Casteen >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 1:17 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Pétition · Apple: Apple, commit to never again willfully >>>> excluding disabled people from public betas · Change.org >>>> >>>> I can't believe such a petition was started!!🙄🤦🏻♀️ This petition >>>> was started because an Apple watch user went against Apple's WARNING >>>> to NEVER install beta versions of IOS on ANY Appple device that is >>>> YOUR main device! Of course, this person just HAD to have the beta >>>> update & installed the beta version on their Apple watch that they >>>> RELY on & USE daily! Beta versions of any program WILL have bugs. The >>>> fact that Apple is a company that stands behind their products making >>>> them accessible for the blind & those with other disabilities, does >>>> NOT exclude Apple's beta versions of IOS from having bugs. Nor does this >>>> bug >>> prevent those who are blind taking part in the public beta testing process. >>>> Apple was FULLY aware of the voiceover bug Associated with ALL Apple >>>> watches. And fully WARNED voiceover users with Apple watches of the bug. >>>> Apple also informed voiceover users that they were working on fixing >>>> the voiceover bug, so that voiceover users could participate in the >>>> public beta testing program. Placing the blame on Apple & criticizing >>>> Apple for a problem that they were working toward fixing, is wrong. >>>> The Blame solely lies with Apple watch user(s), who in their poor >>>> judgement decided to install the public beta on a device, in which is used >>>> daily. >>>> >>>> It is very important that blind iDevice users participate in Apple's >>>> beta testing program, otherwise voiceover or low vision features of >>>> the iDevices would always have major bugs, making the iDevices >>>> unusable. Apple is a large company. The population that is blind & who >>>> use Apple products is very small. If this type of placing blame where >>>> it is obvious it does not belong & publically criticizing Apple for >>>> something that at the time was out of their control, but Apple was working >>> toward fixing: Apple is in the end going to do 1 of 2 things 1. >>>> No longer let blind users participate in the beta testing process. >>>> Apple can do this by stopping all public beta testing. 2. Apple throws >>>> in the towel, giving up on trying to make their products accessible for >>>> such a >>> small population of people. >>>> Neither of these scenarios are in the best interest of blind iDevice users. >>>> >>>> When beta testing follow Apple's guidelines or otherwise DO NOT >>>> complain when your device stops working! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/9A2DA42F-D0E0-4072-8A23- >>>> 91F22261BFC7%40gmail.com. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel >>> that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>> moderators >>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email >>> to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/000701d673ab%24c06f74a0%244 >>> 14e5de0%24%40gmail.com. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel >>> that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>> moderators >>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >>> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email >>> to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/SYCPR01MB40484C0B5D8A1346A >>> DF672D28A5F0%40SYCPR01MB4048.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/017101d67432%24d2a87310%2477f95930%24%40gmail.com. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CBE3C211-A9C0-4E4D-8867-AD0E8EC44A10%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: [email protected]. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/D86F1CBE-8E16-4B34-AA99-E80D84CC4F13%40gmail.com.
