Sorry. The link was https://goo.gl/forms/QyG5eOM44rBkd3qk2
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > I've created this form to gather data about the buttons usage, in order to > make a proposal for the buttons location > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQwjxlFl321Ap97xKlYRcf > -39wlG-cJXXqM1nududfjo3KHQ/viewanalytics > > Hope everyone is comfortable with Google Forms. > Thanks, > Caty > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Denis GERMAIN <dt.germ...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Great proposition ! I like it. >> >> I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can "save >> and >> continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first time >> as >> they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are still in >> edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though they >> usually get the distinction quickly after that. >> >> Regards, >> Denis >> >> 2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com>: >> >> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xw...@crw.xyz> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Caty, >> > > >> > > I am a fan of “B”. >> > > >> > > I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above >> on a >> > > preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see >> the >> > > leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel >> on >> > > the far right effectively “hides” the button. >> > > >> > >> > Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's >> the >> > purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) >> > Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also >> be >> > disabled from Administration - Editing. >> > Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of >> the >> > thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So >> > there are all on a single bar in order to be compact. >> > >> > >> > > >> > > For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the >> > changelog >> > > and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am >> > > editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message >> > > anyway.) >> > > >> > >> > I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is >> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png >> > It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we >> can >> > hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is >> > used/needed or not. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Caty >> > >> > >> > > FWIW, taborder should be the following: >> > > >> > > 1. Edit input >> > > 2. Changelog input >> > > 3. Save button >> > > 4. Preview button >> > > 5. Cancel button >> > > 6. Autosave option >> > > >> > > My $0.02. :) >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Craig >> > > >> > > > On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> > > vali...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xw...@crw.xyz >> > > <mailto:crw+xw...@crw.xyz>> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions: >> > > >> >> > > >> No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save >> > and >> > > >> View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go >> > > farther >> > > >> and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). >> That >> > > is >> > > >> the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) >> is >> > > >> useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially >> if >> > you >> > > >> are dropping Preview. >> > > >> >> > > >> FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is >> not a >> > > 1:1 >> > > >> translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing >> > > source, >> > > >> I can predict how it will look most of the time. :) >> > > >> >> > > >> I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. >> > If I >> > > >> had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” >> would be >> > > at >> > > >> the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly >> by >> > > “Save >> > > >> and Continue." >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have >> some >> > > > usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently >> hosted, >> > > > stats are always hard to get by. >> > > > >> > > > Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not >> > lose >> > > > stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the >> > > > button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, >> especially >> > > > when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not >> accurate. >> > > > >> > > > Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I >> never >> > use >> > > > "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'. >> > > > >> > > > Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of >> > the >> > > > "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced >> users). >> > > > >> > > > So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < >> > > http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the >> > > > past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisi >> bleSave/ >> > > UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png> >> > > > >> > > > Now let's see the heatmaps: >> > > > - Sandbox.WebHome: >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> >> > > > - Sandbox.TestPage1: >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> >> > > > - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png> >> > > > >> > > > From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and >> after >> > is >> > > > "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". >> > > > Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by >> > first-time >> > > > users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the >> > > Preview >> > > > is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the >> > first >> > > > button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action. >> > > > >> > > > So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about >> 'varB'? >> > > > - var A [Save; Save & View]: >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> >> > > > - var B [Save & View; Preview]: >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> >> > > > - var C [Save & View; Save]: >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png> >> > > > >> > > > Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the >> previous >> > > view, >> > > > see >> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ >> > > xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png> >> > > > >> > > > I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have >> > > > visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to >> use >> > it >> > > as >> > > > an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a >> > > static >> > > > position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are >> > best. >> > > > >> > > > My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was >> > that >> > > > WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since >> I >> > > never >> > > > used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it >> would >> > be >> > > > great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a >> bit >> > > > their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki >> > > needs >> > > > to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users. >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Caty >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> Nice work! >> > > >> >> > > >> Craig >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>> On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> > > >> vali...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Hi, >> > > >>> >> > > >>> We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page >> > they >> > > >>> don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the >> > save >> > > >>> buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible >> and >> > > some >> > > >>> users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: >> > > >>> - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are >> out >> > of >> > > >> the >> > > >>> viewport, see >> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png >> > > >>> - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see >> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/after.png >> > > >>> - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, >> > auto-save), >> > > >> see >> > > >>> before: >> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/before.png >> > > >>> after: >> > > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ >> > > >> IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png >> > > >>> >> > > >>> What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the >> > visibility >> > > of >> > > >>> the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should >> > > >> implement? >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Thanks, >> > > >>> Caty >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >
